Primer Reliability

[Smitty79]

Yes, I know there are a ton of threads on this topic. I've never seen one that had quite as much controlled data as I have.

I reload on a Dillon 550B. I case gauge and check for high primers using a Hundo 100 hole gauge. I have an aftermarket needle bearing plate under my shell plate.

The first set of data was taken using my SP-01 Shadow Custom (91030 for the true CZ geek). The only modifications I've put in from the way the gun came from CZC, was to put in an 11.5# hammer spring. As of now, the gun has 6500 rounds through it since it was new in January.

I had been running CCI SPP's and had been seeing about 1 initial fail to fire in 300 rounds shot. This seemed to be better, though not completely removed if I'd freshly cleaned the firing pin channel with brake cleaner. Cutting one coil off of the reduced power firing pin spring didn't help. This set up has always been 100% on Federal primers.

With the 11.5# spring and the cut down firing pin spring, I went to the range with 100 each Magtech, S&B, Winchester and Remington SPP's. When shooting these the Winchesters all went "bang" the first time. The S&B and Remington each had on fail to fire that ignited on a DA restrike. 3 of the Magtech primers needed a second strike to fire.

Here's where things got surprising. Keeping everything else the same, I put a CGW 8.5# hammer spring in the gun and cleaned/lubed it, including cleaning the firing pin channel.

Unless otherwise noted, all rounds were shot in single action.

Federal: 6 rounds failed to fire on first strike. One of those, would only fire in DA. The rest fired in SA mode on the second attempt.

CCI: 7 failed to fire on first strike. All subsequently fired in SA mode.

Magtech: 4 failed to fire on first strike. All subsequently fired in SA mode. This surprised me as Magtech was worse on the 11.5# test.

Remington: One complete dud. All other rounds fired on first SA strike.

S&B: 10 rounds failed to fire on first strike. One of those, would only fire in DA.

I was wondering if a "dirty gun" might be an advantage for primer reliability, so I shot another 10 rounds of Federal primed ammo. 3 failed to fire on the first SA pull. All subsequently fired in SA.

I was expecting that the Federal primers would all ignite first time every time.

I'm going to put the 11.5# spring back in the gun. The 8.5# spring makes the DA trigger too mushy. I'm sure I could train to make that acceptable. I'd rather stick with what I have than train hard just to get used to a less reliable trigger. I'm going to load up many more rounds and see how the non-Federals do in my gun with the 11.5# spring over a higher round count test.

[Ryan626]

It just so happen that I just did this as well on my 75B and I had 3 light strikes that ignited after pulling the trigger again with CCI primers and 11.5 hammer springs. 3 light strikes in 150 rds is still unacceptable to me. I may switch to Winchester or Federal based on your data. Thanks!

Edited June 28, 2015 by Ryan626

[9x45]

I have run over 50,000 CCI primers thru my Glocks, and never, ever, once, had an issue and I load on a very old 550 without the needle thrust bearing modification. What is the factory hammer springs weight for your gun?

[Smitty79]

I think factory is near 18#. Main spring isn't as big a deal for Glocks. They are essentially really crappy single action triggers.

[wtturn]

Seat the primers even deeper and see what happens.

[Smitty79]

Seat the primers even deeper and see what happens.

Can't be controlled with a 550. Seems like some kind of aftermarket part/shim might be interesting for this.

[bfalcon00]

I've been using CCI SPP for a year or so now and haven't had any problems. I've ran them through my shield (9mm), a 686-6, a 19-5, and a colt gov combat (small primer brass which I'm starting to quickly like incidentally) with no problems. Had 5 fail to fire in the last 4000 and all those I had culled because the primers were sitting too high on my final inspection. I load on a 650 with the thrust bearing mod as well. Overall I like CCI mostly because of the packaging and I can find them locally very easy if need be to hold me over between orders. Are all your failures on just the one sidearm, or are they across several different guns?

[dauntedfuture]

This really has nothing to do with the primers exactly, its a function of energy that a firearm can generate. Comparing a glock and a tuned up CZ is an apples to oranges comparison. In general ALL primers SHOULD light in a standard gun. When you lighten springs up you can run into issued as some primers are more or less sensitive, or to put it another way, some primers require MORE or LESS energy to light. Primer seating depth has an effect as if you have high primers some of the firing pin energy is absorbed as the primer is "seated" by the firing pin energy. I cant speak to modifications on a Dillon but if you do your part and make sure any primer is seated properly you will have less issues. Don't forget that primer pocket depth and primer lengths all very so you might find that one brand of brass causes issues as you can have a combination of a "short" primer and a deep pocket.

I run FSP in my revolvers as they are all tuned light and in my factory M&P production gun. My 2011's and glocks don't care and will light SRPs without an issue.

[RPatton]

When picking up brass I have picked up loaded rounds on the range. Pulling the bullets from rounds on the range it is interesting to see how little some people know about reloading. .40 and 9MM pistol bullets crimped so much that they would remain in place even under .454 recoil.

I have pulled 2 rounds that failed to fire and the primers had no primer compound in them. Now I inspect all primers before reloading.

I guess QC just ain't what it used to be.

[NFLcavediver]

I just found 700 cci 500 primers that I bought in 1979 loaded them up and they all went bang. Through three guns. I load on an old single stage press and have to check the primer seat. I spin every one to make sure they seat. That would be a chore on a progressive press. It's a chore on my press. Have you called Dillon if they are not seating properly?

[TDA]

It makes sense to me.

If you lighten up the main spring you increase your chances of light strikes.

You lightened yours up even more and had more light strikes.

[bowenbuilt]

Lighten up a mainspring and use CCI primers and you are going to get light strikes. Should be expected and will happen. CCI primer cups are thick and hard compared to Winchester and Federal and are made for OEM main/striker springs.

[RPatton]

Lighten up a mainspring and use CCI primers and you are going to get light strikes. Should be expected and will happen. CCI primer cups are thick and hard compared to Winchester and Federal and are made for OEM main/striker springs.

+1

If you reduce the mainspring power you will reach a point where the gun will fail to fire. Failure to fire can be caused by a number of things, i.e. a dirty gun, high primer, a different brand or different lot of primers and it may not occur with any consistency.

Mr. Murphy will determine the appropriate time for ignition failure.

[Alann]

This is an old post and reply, but from Johannesburg: Yes I also had my CZ Shadow SP01 main spring 14Ib, recoil spring 11lb and preB disconnector installed. All IPSC legal. I was very concerned and surprised when at some point my gun went click instead of bang. These were using Wolf (Russian) primers, all of which went bang previously, 1000's of times.  All the rounds went bang the second strike, the odd one after 3 strikes. Some of my brass is, well, old, at least 30 years and has many reloads. So primer pocket cleaning seemed a good idea. But I also had a look at my 550b. Firstly clean out the indexing ball, spring and hole under the shell plate, that let's you lower, the shell plate slightly (it all helps). You can adjust the primer seating depth on the 550b, but not easily in fact it's a real PITA. See the left bottom corner of page 5 of the 550b manual. The local Dillon guy did it for me. If you adjust to the maximum, it's evidently not a good idea. Using Federal primers solved the problem, into any old primer pocket, but they are getting scarce to impossible to find in the US, let alone SA. S&B and Fiocchi primers work as well, albeit now in clean primer pockets and set to about 0.005 below flush. Before I must admit it was a bit hit and miss. So now I must use a box of Wolff primers and hopefully these all work. If not I have about 7000 waiting for my open gun license.  A side benefit is everything gets decapped and wet cleaned before it gets to the 550b, so reloading goes sweet! So bottom line is you can use soft primers or Remingtons (from an earlier post, really?), or you can seat primers properly. I believe that Federals are soft (and use a different priming compound) and Wolff hard. But everything else I don't know, but CCI's are supposed to be quite hard. Here in SA the cheapest primers are S&B, about 50% of everything else, but I did shoot 100, properly seated. But the box says for small rifle as well?

 

The importer of Wolff said he won't bring more in because too many Glock owners complained about light strikes! Or more likely not properly seated primers.