jwayne Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 I just recently switched guns and class in IDPA. I am now running a Springfield 1911 in 9mm and have 6 of the new Wilson ETM 10 round mags,,,,,,,,,here is the kicker,,,,,,,,they function and feed great 100% of the time.....................but when dropping the slide from slidelock, they occasionally will not feed the first round(i have to tap the slide).........I started out with a 10# recoil spring ,,,,,,,,then 11#,,,,,,,,now up to a 12# for the next test (not tried yet). My OAL is 1.116 which feeds and functions great (handloads), it is always when dropping the slide from slide lock that get me? Any ideas would be appreciated? Thanks, Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 Exactly how are you dropping the slide? Slide stop/release lever or pulling it rearward and letting it go? The latter should work, and is the proper way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwayne Posted December 26, 2009 Author Share Posted December 26, 2009 Exactly how are you dropping the slide? Slide stop/release lever or pulling it rearward and letting it go? The latter should work, and is the proper way. Do not ride the slide closed with your hand at all, really let it go from the rear most position. This most duplicates the way the gun works while firing it. I always us the slide stop release,,,,,,never had any problems over the past 4-5 years,,,,,,,,,,this problem just started when I went to the Wilosn 10 round mags? It does great with metalform 9 rounders! I would like to pickup the extra round if posiable. Thanks, Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcelr8hard Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 Try a search on Nosediving bullets. I have read quite a few discusions about it. I have the same problem quite often with Tripp mags and flat point bullets. A little thread drift.. I find it more desireable to run 9 rds. in the mag for IDPA. You will be at slide lock after 5 targets, as opposed to 5 1/2 targets. I have never had a nose dive problem with my 10rnd loaded to 9. Butch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwayne Posted December 27, 2009 Author Share Posted December 27, 2009 Try a search on Nosediving bullets. I have read quite a few discusions about it. I have the same problem quite often with Tripp mags and flat point bullets.A little thread drift.. I find it more desireable to run 9 rds. in the mag for IDPA. You will be at slide lock after 5 targets, as opposed to 5 1/2 targets. I have never had a nose dive problem with my 10rnd loaded to 9. Butch might just give that a try!! I hear that the new Metalform 10 rounders run flawlessly....but at $48 a piece they should load them selves also!! Thanks, Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wurm Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 That sucks to hear you are having problems with your 9mm 1911. I run a 9mm Springfield 1911 with Wilson ETM mags and haven't had any problems with feeding the first round, either from racking the slide or using the slide stop (which I do often as a lefty). I'm running a 9lb recoil spring and load Montana Gold 124gr HP to 1.125 to 1.130 (just for reference). Exactly what kind of jam are you having? Is the round just hitting the ramp and stopping or is it making it farther than that? Have you marked your mags and made sure it isn't just a problem with one or two? Tried any other brand mags? Are you bullets round nose or hollow points? Do the Wilson mags sit higher in the gun than the Metalform mags? I just took a look at mine and my Wilson mags sit just a tiny bit higher in the gun than the stock Springfield 9rd mag. I am using an Ed Brown extended mag release though so maybe the stock one holds the mags just a bit higher or lower? When feeding the first round from a full magazine the mag spring is pushing up pretty hard. Have you tried loading the gun with mags not loaded to capacity? Also, are you pushing up on the mag when you drop the slide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwayne Posted December 27, 2009 Author Share Posted December 27, 2009 That sucks to hear you are having problems with your 9mm 1911. I run a 9mm Springfield 1911 with Wilson ETM mags and haven't had any problems with feeding the first round, either from racking the slide or using the slide stop (which I do often as a lefty). I'm running a 9lb recoil spring and load Montana Gold 124gr HP to 1.125 to 1.130 (just for reference).Exactly what kind of jam are you having? Is the round just hitting the ramp and stopping or is it making it farther than that? Have you marked your mags and made sure it isn't just a problem with one or two? Tried any other brand mags? Are you bullets round nose or hollow points? Do the Wilson mags sit higher in the gun than the Metalform mags? I just took a look at mine and my Wilson mags sit just a tiny bit higher in the gun than the stock Springfield 9rd mag. I am using an Ed Brown extended mag release though so maybe the stock one holds the mags just a bit higher or lower? When feeding the first round from a full magazine the mag spring is pushing up pretty hard. Have you tried loading the gun with mags not loaded to capacity? Also, are you pushing up on the mag when you drop the slide? The first round from slidelock will hit the ramp and stop? Tap it and it will close? All six mags do the same thing? Bullets are 147gr Precesion Delta It works fine with metalform "springfield' 9 rounders It will work fine with only 9 rounds in the mag! If it had too much tension on the extractor.....it would do it on all the rounds not just the first one???? Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan550 Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 It's probably the spring tension on that first round. I have the same problem with Wilson's .38 super mags getting the top round to feed. I have 9 of those mags and 7 of them will feed the top round, the other 2 won't. Try loading them to capacity and let 'em sit for a while. That will make the spring take a "set" and should help the problem. Another shooter in the area had the same problem and cured it by cutting off one coil from the mag spring. That, I don't recommend, but it worked for him! Alan~^~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 I only have one ETM, it runs well in my 9mm Colt and SA. BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE! The Colt has a standard barrel and the SA's integral ramp has been recontoured (not just "polished") to about the same feed angle. I think the steep angle of the typical integral ramp is responsible for a lot of failures to feed. Now if you can find a gunsmith who is not afraid to relieve that angle and uncover as much of the case wall as Colt does at the factory... My experience with the Metalform 10 round 9mms has not been entirely positive. I THINK I have them fixed, but am not certain, being that I switched to SSP for a while after rebuilding them and doing a quick test. I'd like to try the Tripp, but don't really need any more magazines as long as the ones I have will work. By the way, Butch; around here, a stage starting with five double tap targets is not real common, never mind a whole match. The even number school of loadout is not a big help. And we even miss and have to make up a shot every once in a while, which seems less common in other parts of the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwayne Posted December 27, 2009 Author Share Posted December 27, 2009 A friend of mine has had great luck with his....running in a STI,,,,,,I am going to go get his mags this evening and compare them to mine....along with trying them in my gun....... I will get it figured out before the next match in March!!! Thanks for all the help, Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wurm Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 See if you can try his mag catch/release. I went down in my basement and found my original mag catch assembly (man that took some time, I need to clean) and compared it to the Ed Brown I currently have in the gun. The Springfield mag catch held my mags, both the Springfield and Wilson ETM, a small but noticeable amount higher in the frame. I took the slide off and swapped back and forth a bunch of times while looking at it from different angles. I then grabbed mag catches from a Kimber and a Nighthawk and both of them held the mags in the same position as the Ed Brown. Maybe your mag catch is like mine and holds the mags up higher and combined with the 10 round ETM mags and their stronger mag springs it is just too much for the slide to overcome just using the slide stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwayne Posted December 30, 2009 Author Share Posted December 30, 2009 After setting down with my buddy,,,,he uses the same mags,,,,,,,it became obvious as to what the problem was,,,,,,mine were seated too deep on the OAL....we use the same bullets, powder, and mags. My first round was nosediving (actually catching on the rim of the 2nd round in the mag,,,,,it being slightly forward in the mag due to being to short) everything is wonderful again!!! Happy New Year to all!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wurm Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Glad to hear you worked it out and that it was the easiest fix of all! I love it when I don't have to spend any money to fix a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTBfarms Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 The ETM's use very strong springs. In my Kimbers you have to really give it a good smack to get a fully loaded mag to seat. I'm not sure if changing the OAL will solve your problem. Its just that there is so much force holding that first round in place. Mine got easier to seat the more I used them. My only suggestion would be to leave them loaded for a while and see if it starts working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwayne Posted December 31, 2009 Author Share Posted December 31, 2009 Matt at Wilson advised the same thing....that i am doing also! Got some fresh loads ready to check them out this Sat (providing it is above the 20 degrees they are calling for here) Thanks, Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTBfarms Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 Matt at Wilson advised the same thing....that i am doing also!Got some fresh loads ready to check them out this Sat (providing it is above the 20 degrees they are calling for here) Thanks, Jerry I think it does help. Mine are working great now after they got broken in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 Bullet profile has a lot to do with it as well. 10 round 1911 9mm mags that fit the box are at full capacity. That first round is just wanting to hit the bottom of the ramp. If you have a flat nosed JHP or a unpolished ramp a lot of times that can do it. I had the ramp of my barrel polished pretty good and I could then run JHP but I switched to CMJ just for safeties sake. I've tried talking Virgil into makeing some 11 round 9mm mags but haven't gotten very far with that lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTBfarms Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 Bullet profile has a lot to do with it as well. 10 round 1911 9mm mags that fit the box are at full capacity. That first round is just wanting to hit the bottom of the ramp. If you have a flat nosed JHP or a unpolished ramp a lot of times that can do it. I had the ramp of my barrel polished pretty good and I could then run JHP but I switched to CMJ just for safeties sake. I've tried talking Virgil into makeing some 11 round 9mm mags but haven't gotten very far with that lol. Take this with a grain of salt because I have not seen this but was just told about it. I was told that if you search over the Tripp mags you will be able to find one every once and a while that WILL hold 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 Bullet profile has a lot to do with it as well. 10 round 1911 9mm mags that fit the box are at full capacity. That first round is just wanting to hit the bottom of the ramp. If you have a flat nosed JHP or a unpolished ramp a lot of times that can do it. I had the ramp of my barrel polished pretty good and I could then run JHP but I switched to CMJ just for safeties sake. I've tried talking Virgil into makeing some 11 round 9mm mags but haven't gotten very far with that lol. Take this with a grain of salt because I have not seen this but was just told about it. I was told that if you search over the Tripp mags you will be able to find one every once and a while that WILL hold 11. Hmmm...I guess I need to quite bouncing emails off Virgil and Aaron and just buy a few in 9mm. I don't want them to actually hold 11 I just want the extra room for the rounds to compress during the reload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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