00bullitt Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 We want them.....but do we NEED them?Its about keeping it simple......KISS. Know your ballistic table for your ammo and use holdovers? Do you mean as in float your reticle over the target? I am speaking with zero experience. If drop at 300 yards is 8.3 inches and at 400 its 24 inches, assuming your target is a 10" plate, can you estimate where to put your reticle? That sounds good on paper but not so precise under stress of a match. But I would prefer all my competition to use that method. With a 200 yard zero holding the top of a 10" plate is doable. After 300.....you start floating in limbo. Not too easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 (edited) I knew you were pokin" I just didn't know if you knew I had shot teeny bullets!!!!! You saying that you want hold offs, and do not actually need them is exactly what I was refering to about "unnecessary" clutter in a reticle. if your dot is 2 moa and your sight in zero is optimal for the type and range of targets, you should "with practice" be able to hold within the necessary windage holdoffs. if you are trying to shoot in a 20+ mph full value wind you are wasting time trying to hit, and would be better served to take the penalties and move on. its hard to do and many will dispute it but it is the way to come out on top for that stage in those conditions. A constant 10mph full value wind, which I personally have NEVER had to shoot in, moves the bullet no more than 4moa all the way out to 400yds (75gr MHP @ 2600) that is easy to hold and see with a 2 moa dot as reference. Heck most of the targets we shoot at beyond 200yds are 3moa at least, this allows for what I mentioned earlier, simply aiming on the edge of the target. If you are using a 200yd zero, and know that you will be shooting at targets beyond that, 300ish,...........you are foolish. optimize your trajectory considering that the average velocity is at least 2600, a 250 yds zero should be the least you should consider, with a 300 zero being better. this allows for much easier and user friendly holdoffs and holdovers. trapr Edited December 19, 2009 by bigbrowndog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 I've tried the 300 yard zero. But prefer the 200 with optics 95% of the time. I'd use 250 or 300 for irons though. For most folks....its hard to confirm more than a 200 yard zero. I prefer not play the intersect zero. I must know my exact zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted December 19, 2009 Author Share Posted December 19, 2009 Trapr, training goes a long way doesn't it. rufdog, since you're one of the pros that know, maybe you will be more successful in getting one made. You missed the whole thing about trying to convince the manufacturers it's a "needed" item huh? I use their arguments in this thread against those that participated hoping someone can give me something to fight with. I digress, and I give up. I wanted for 1 reticle, and I have it, in the exact scope I wanted it in. It competes for that companies highest selling reticle, so I'm pretty happy with a job well done. I am patiently waiting for the FFP version of that scope to arrive on my door steps. As for the 3G optics, I give up. I'll go back to the focus of asking this 1 group of people to make an eyepiece with a reticle in it for my spotting scopes that I can use to range targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Trapr, training goes a long way doesn't it. rufdog, since you're one of the pros that know, maybe you will be more successful in getting one made. You missed the whole thing about trying to convince the manufacturers it's a "needed" item huh? I use their arguments in this thread against those that participated hoping someone can give me something to fight with. I digress, and I give up. I wanted for 1 reticle, and I have it, in the exact scope I wanted it in. It competes for that companies highest selling reticle, so I'm pretty happy with a job well done. I am patiently waiting for the FFP version of that scope to arrive on my door steps. As for the 3G optics, I give up. I'll go back to the focus of asking this 1 group of people to make an eyepiece with a reticle in it for my spotting scopes that I can use to range targets. You could always go shoot a good 3 gun match. Or better yet.....just go shoot the Tactical Carbine Championship in Birmingham over at Steel City in May. That should give you a good feel for what these type rifles really need in an optic. They also hold awesome carbine matches every 5th Saturday over there. And I'm pretty sure I know where RufDog was coming from with his comment. And training....I won't even go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted December 19, 2009 Author Share Posted December 19, 2009 I'm not a 3G shooter, just had the ability to get some stuff done so I "could get some kudos with some company". I wont bother, I can see now it's a waste of my time. I have enough other hobbies to keep me busy... my plate is pretty full between USPSA, long range shooting, and work. I'll just shoot for the ranging eyepiece which is something I personally can use and have quite a bit of experience with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling White Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 (edited) However I am still waiting for someone to tell me WHY, windage stadia lines are NEEDED in a 3 gun reticle. Especially when they are not NEEDED apparently 95% to 99% of the time? Trapr, the remaining 1% includes making precision shots on flash bonus targets from on top of a tower at the MGM this coming season. It is pretty easy to get a hit on a IPSC size target at 400. But, add a 6" center that flashes when you hit it becomes the target. Why? The points earned for the bonus is worth the extra time spent to get the flash. For me, getting as many bonus hits at the MGM may mean the difference of one or two positions in the overall order of finish. [edited to add photo] Edited December 19, 2009 by Sterling White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Sterling so one shot a year in how many??????????????????????????????????????? thats funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 I'm not a 3G shooter, just had the ability to get some stuff done so I "could get some kudos with some company". I wont bother, I can see now it's a waste of my time. I have enough other hobbies to keep me busy... my plate is pretty full between USPSA, long range shooting, and work. I'll just shoot for the ranging eyepiece which is something I personally can use and have quite a bit of experience with. Thats why I offered for you to come out and try some tactical carbine match.Its just one gun(that I'm sure you own) Then you can advance in your status to "you know what you don't know". You might leave with another hobby too. As a matter of fact....I know you will. And then you will have more of a purpose in getting the proper scope and reticle designed for this type of shooting. See....its a win/win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling White Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 One match and bonus target are spread throughout. For the tower stage I believe there are 4 bonus target, 2 hits each, for a total of 8 available bonus hits - just on that stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling White Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 No come back from Trapr...Now that's funny! Merry Christmas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 No come back from Trapr...Now that's funny! Merry Christmas! Ahhhh.....you know Trapr.....if he isn't here startin' fires.....hes out there fightin' em Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 I've tried the 300 yard zero. But prefer the 200 with optics 95% of the time. I'd use 250 or 300 for irons though.For most folks....its hard to confirm more than a 200 yard zero. I prefer not play the intersect zero. I must know my exact zero. If you haven't run the 300 zero for a little while, give it another try. I didn't like it at first either. Switched back to a 200 yard zero, then forced myself to use the 3000 for a while and grew to like it a lot. Sterling so one shot a year in how many???????????????????????????????????????thats funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Trapr Kinda like driving 1000 miles one way, staying in motel for four nights to spend a grand total of 6 or 7 minutes engaged on the trigger...... We aren't exactly what you could call a rational bunch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Just saw this reticle in another thread. Its from the Burris 332 3x which is their fixed power tactical scope. Pretty simple design that could work well. I'm still unsure why I see so many 12 o'clock vertical bars though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shay1911 Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 (edited) Found my answer, sorry. Edited December 19, 2009 by Shay1911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 I think member Gose has a good subtended drawing of the Meopta. Its been posted on here before somewhere. Nope.....it was JNikoley who drew it.Gose asked about it. Just found it. Reticle_dimensions_in_MOA.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Gonsalves Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 (edited) I really don't have enough knowledge to even post on this subject, however I couldn't sleep and was playing with some new photo software. Here's what I put together using some pictures from earlier in this topic. Comments? Since you have this ability......take the reticle from the very first post in this thread. Just use the broken circle and dot and add the Velocity stadia tree below it without the vertical line.Remove the 300 hash if it fits better. How's this? Edited December 19, 2009 by Brian Gonsalves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShooterSteve Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 I think that reticle would be very workable. A large illum circle for quick CQB, a fine aiming point for more precise aiming, a little bit of hold off lines below with no 12 o'clock and horizontal junk to get in the way. Put it in a decent scope and I would like to have one. Also, for people who like to turn turrets, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the ones by Burris, and I think Swaro has them also. Four independent rings on the top turret. Zero it for the range you want and lock it. Then do the one above, and continue. It has a 'Mark" for your zero. For example, Low ring is maybe 30yds for CQB, next ring is 200, next is 300, then 400. During a stage, you can dial your turrret, but you don't have to remember numbers or clicks, just dial to the next dot and shoot. Of course you can adjust them for whatever range you want or prefer. I just threw the example above out with little thought, just a quick example. Anybody used these knobs or given them consideration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 I really don't have enough knowledge to even post on this subject, however I couldn't sleep and was playing with some new photo software. Here's what I put together using some pictures from earlier in this topic. Comments? Since you have this ability......take the reticle from the very first post in this thread. Just use the broken circle and dot and add the Velocity stadia tree below it without the vertical line.Remove the 300 hash if it fits better. How's this? Thats kinda what I had in mind but I reliaze that you are cutting and pasting and software limited. I'm really wanting the broken outer circle bigger with the tree inside. I sketched my idea and scanned it. ShooterSteve......Swarovski does not offer the turrets you speak of on the 1-6x Z6. I wish they did. TL_reticle_sketch_2.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Adamson Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Thats kinda what I had in mind but I reliaze that you are cutting and pasting and software limited. I'm really wanting the broken outer circle bigger with the tree inside. I sketched my idea and scanned it. ShooterSteve......Swarovski does not offer the turrets you speak of on the 1-6x Z6. I wish they did. I dropped the guy that has modeled the reticles in autocad, in full scaling a note about this one Tod, hope he'll grab it and do a full scale model. I'd like to see it, it has lots o advantages... Thanks for the hand draw... you did good! Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 I sent it to Shellfish17 yesterday to see if he could draw it. I just think hes been busy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 I'm back!!!!!!!! I do require my 8 hours of sleep and then there's the 1.75hr drive to work, and checking out the fire truck, and............................. Sterling, I still cannot fathom the rationale behind wanting something for such a tiny, small percentage of your shooting!! But hey I'm a keep it simple kinda guy, and have found that practice and familiarity overcomes many shortcomings. besides I have nothing to do on my days off except practice, and load more ammo. Sterling, I don't recall getting an app for the HPSC from you have you sent one in????? trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 (edited) I'm back!!!!!!!! Sterling, I don't recall getting an app for the HPSC from you have you sent one in????? trapr Trapr is like the Rudy guys on Hijacking a thread back to, Theee High Plains Shotgun Challenge. so If I am helping with ROing ...do I need to send an aplication ? Edited December 19, 2009 by AlamoShooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShooterSteve Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 (edited) I did a little digging, and it is the Swaro line that carries the turret. It's called the ballistice turret, but unfortunately it is only offered on the higher magnification scopes. Could come in real useful if they could put it on their 1x6. I know the Burris catalog shows this option also. I just looked for it online and couldn't find it, but I know they offer it. Too tired to run upstairs and find the catalog. Getting old is bad.... Edited December 20, 2009 by shooter steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling White Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 shooter steve - take a look at the turrets on valdada's. It's offered on the pitty and its bigger brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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