Calmwater Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I searched this several times, but didn't find what I wanted. I shoot a Glock 34 in production. I have Warren Tactical sights with a black front. Everything else on my pistol is stock. I am considering going to 13 pound ISMI spring and an aftermarket guide rod. I shoot factory ammo and probably will for a long time. I have several questions: Would any guide rod on the market put me overweight for production? Are the full length rods for the 34 generally better than the shorter rods? Would any rod in particular work better with the ISMI springs? Is there truly any benefit to changing or should I just leave well enough alone? What are most of you using and why? For the answer to these and the rest of your questions tune in to the next episode of Soap........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bell Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I'm a cheap bastard and use the factory rod with a 13lb ISMI and three coils clipped. This is with my own ammo at just over 130 power factor, works well enough for me. If I were to change it would probably be to a Jager plastic rod to keep me IDPA SSP legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 (edited) Would any guide rod on the market put me overweight for production?Any standard length rod will be fine, even steel, brass or tungsten, although the tungsten or brass rods will get you close to the limit. If you change to a heavier sight, like the Dawson adjustable, and add grip tape, and/or you use a long heavy rod, you will be very close or over the limit. Are the full length rods for the 34 generally better than the shorter rods? Only in that they add extra weight up front, and that they are a bit easier to get installed with an uncaptured spring. Would any rod in particular work better with the ISMI springs? The ISMI flat wire springs are designed for rods the same diameter as the factory original. There are rods designed to fit Wolff springs, which are round wire springs with a larger internal diameter. Those fat rods won't even take the ISMI or factory springs. Factory diameter rods will take the Wolff springs, but there will be some lateral play and I don't know how they run. Is there truly any benefit to changing or should I just leave well enough alone? Some folks, yrs truly included, went through the hassle of tweaking the springs, and like the different feel of the gun through the recoil cycle. Some folks never change. Some tweak, adjust, and eventually tweak and adjust themselves right back to the factory configuration, which is pretty much guaranteed to run well and safely with factory PF ammo. If you change the recoil spring, you likely will have to change to a lighter striker spring to avoid the risk of out of battery detonations. What are most of you using and why? 11# ISMI springs on a short tungsten rod, lightened striker spring with 135 PF ammo through both a G34 and G35 (for Production), and long tungsten rod, same striker spring and 170 PF ammo in the G35 for L10/Limited. I find the FS recovers faster, and more precisely with this set up. That's what works for me. YMMV Those are just my opinions, of course Edited December 11, 2009 by kevin c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 If I were to change it would probably be to a Jager plastic rod to keep me IDPA SSP legal. What company(ies) make the large diameter plastic rods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 If you change the recoil spring, you likely will have to change to a lighter striker spring to avoid the risk of out of battery detonations. I have heard a lot that's true. I have said a lot that's true. Then I read certain people here stating it's not true - within reason, as long as you don't go too low on the recoil spring weight - so I tried it. Now I run a stock firing pin spring with an ISMI 13-pound recoil spring and I've never had a single problem. Don't know as I'd want to go lower than that, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jman Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmwater Posted December 11, 2009 Author Share Posted December 11, 2009 (edited) Guess I have just been getting the urge to tinker. Just watch Burkett's how to shoot faster. He is a big fan of the lighter recoil springs......... The term out of battery detonation is not a pleasant one......... In the foreword of Brian's book Leatham says "I still have a box of parts and pieces from the experimental phase days. We realized that the score changes we were getting from the guns were very minimal. We were finding that you'd have the greatest gun in the world and the difference it made was fractional compared to if you went to the match and missed one shot." All that said, Robbie probably still shoots the best guns he can. Lots to think about........ Thanks for your replies. Another thread on the LW guiderods eating into the slide of a 34 kinda has me gunshy too. Flex, do you shoot stock in Limited too? Just curious. Edited December 11, 2009 by Calmwater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouSlide Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I shoot a Glock 34 in production. I have Warren Tactical sights with a black front. Everything else on my pistol is stock. I am considering going to 13 pound ISMI spring and an aftermarket guide rod. I shoot factory ammo and probably will for a long time. I also shoot a G34 and the benefit of lighter springs is to tune to lighter than factory ammo. For factory ammo just stick with the stock spring. In regards to weight, with your set up, any standard length stainless guide rod should be GTG, tungsten becomes iffy, the extended tungsten will definitely put you over limit. Curtis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I also shoot a G34 and the benefit of lighter springs is to tune to lighter than factory ammo. For factory ammo just stick with the stock spring. I don't find that to be true. The benefit of a lighter spring is that much of the recoil we experience, and concomitant muzzle flip, is caused by the rearward rocketing slide overcoming and compressing the recoil spring. Lessen the amount of force necessary to accomplish that, you lessen perceived recoil and muzzle flip. Also when the slide returns forward, if it does so excesssively hard the muzzle has a tendency to bounce up and down like a tuning fork. I call this subsidiary muzzle bounce or SMB. Because with a lighter recoil spring the slide is not slamming into battery nearly as hard, not only do you get less perceived recoil and muzzle flip, you get less SMB, as well. Yes, even with factory ammo. I know there are some people, our own Flexmoney among them, who run stock springs in their Glocks, and do very well indeed with that setup. I also know that Flex is a serious weightlifter whose hands are so strong he's been known to rip DVD cases in two when he mistook which side had the hinge. I don't fall into that category, and in all probability neither do you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouSlide Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 (edited) I also shoot a G34 and the benefit of lighter springs is to tune to lighter than factory ammo. For factory ammo just stick with the stock spring. I don't find that to be true. The benefit of a lighter spring is that much of the recoil we experience, and concomitant muzzle flip, is caused by the rearward rocketing slide overcoming and compressing the recoil spring. Lessen the amount of force necessary to accomplish that, you lessen perceived recoil and muzzle flip. Also when the slide returns forward, if it does so excesssively hard the muzzle has a tendency to bounce up and down like a tuning fork. I call this subsidiary muzzle bounce or SMB. Because with a lighter recoil spring the slide is not slamming into battery nearly as hard, not only do you get less perceived recoil and muzzle flip, you get less SMB, as well. Yes, even with factory ammo. Duane, that is an interesting explanation that makes sense. Perception, after all, is the basis of our reality, especially vis-a-vis practical shooting. I do like the feel of heavy 9mm bullets, a mid 130s PF and the lighter springs in my 9mm Glocks: more recoil push, less recoil flip, easier sight acquisition for aging, less than optimal eyes. Now in my 10mms, I go just the opposite direction, i.e. heavier springs with loads that are heavier than the lower velocity 10mm loads that are usually available. FWIW, the stock Glock springs in that case seem to take quite a battering from stout loads. Heavier springs seem to control the slide velocity a little better and feel better to me. Curtis Edited: 'cause I hate typos! Edited December 22, 2009 by Duane Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Would any guide rod on the market put me overweight for production? It could --- the only way to tell is with a scale. Warren Sights, Grip Tape, short Steel guide Rod, and ten round mag puts me close to the limit. (The ten round mags weigh ~ 1/4 oz. more than the 17 rounders -- a consideration in Production Division in some states....) Are the full length rods for the 34 generally better than the shorter rods? They weigh more, and hang more weight out front. I recently shot a G-34 with an extended Tungsten rod against one with a stock rod --- and honestly couldn't tell which gun was which. Would any rod in particular work better with the ISMI springs? The THE Tungsten rods work well with ISMI springs, and I think Jager's rods work with those too.... Is there truly any benefit to changing or should I just leave well enough alone? Only you can answer that question. Don't be surprised if a benefit now, turns into can't tell the difference later.... What are most of you using and why? I'm currently running Wolff short Steel guiderods with Wolff 14 lb. springs. Those seem to work and I already own them.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 If you change the recoil spring, you likely will have to change to a lighter striker spring to avoid the risk of out of battery detonations. I have heard a lot that's true. I have said a lot that's true. Then I read certain people here stating it's not true - within reason, as long as you don't go too low on the recoil spring weight - so I tried it. Now I run a stock firing pin spring with an ISMI 13-pound recoil spring and I've never had a single problem. Don't know as I'd want to go lower than that, though. Probably would have been best to speak only of my own experience. In that case, I had, w/ new #11 ISMI springs, and stock striker springs, multiple light primer hits with FTF's. In working out why, I discovered the slide backing out of battery on pulling the trigger. True, no detonations, but a more sensitive primer than the WSP's I was using, or perhaps just a slightly different tolerance stack, might let one go, so I changed the striker springs and the the problem went away. I also noticed that I could, with some magazines, get the slide to move back out of battery just by slamming home a full magazine. This would only happen with a light 11 or 13 pound recoil spring with the std striker spring, and only if the slide had been cycled first, semicompressing the striker spring and preloading some rearward pressure on the slide. This also went away with a change in springing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Hmmmm. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGaultsGun Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 I searched this several times, but didn't find what I wanted. I shoot a Glock 34 in production. I have Warren Tactical sights with a black front. Everything else on my pistol is stock. I am considering going to 13 pound ISMI spring and an aftermarket guide rod. I shoot factory ammo and probably will for a long time. I have several questions: Would any guide rod on the market put me overweight for production? Are the full length rods for the 34 generally better than the shorter rods? Would any rod in particular work better with the ISMI springs? Is there truly any benefit to changing or should I just leave well enough alone? What are most of you using and why? For the answer to these and the rest of your questions tune in to the next episode of Soap........ I took a Glockworx steel guide rod and put it on. The extended version will put you over the weight restriction. In the end, you need to weigh it because my glock at Nationals came in .3 ounces under the weight. Which was exactly what my scale measured at home before the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmwater Posted December 22, 2009 Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 Anybody using a Jager extended steel rod in a 34? Will it make weight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Anybody using a Jager extended steel rod in a 34? Will it make weight? That's all gonna depend on what else you're dealing with..... On my 34s, with Sevigny sights, 10 round mags (heavier than 17s but required where I compete most), and grip tape, the Wolff 17 length guiderods leave me comfortably under. Tungsten puts me over. I'm not buying extended steel rods to make the margin tighter, I like a little wiggle room on the scale.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmwater Posted December 22, 2009 Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 That makes sense. I have 17 round mags, so that would give me that quarter oz of breathing room. I run the warrens and have no grip tape right now, but that may change... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I have tried the steel guide rods in both a G19 and a G35 mainly so I could tinker with spring weights. It may just be perception, but I do find I like the lighter weight spring in both guns. This may also reflect the fact that shoot heavier bullets in both of them most of the time. As to the Jager full length guide rod, I tried it in my G35 just because I could and found I really like the combination of that rod and the Wolff spring. FWIW, this is still JUST a hobby for me and I like to experiment with things. I'm not that great a shot because I don't practice enough. If I practiced more, I'd be better regardless of what rod and spring I used. All this is my way of saying that a new rod and spring will not make an A shooter out of a C shooter, so don't get caught up that much in the equipment thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 That makes sense. I have 17 round mags, so that would give me that quarter oz of breathing room. I run the warrens and have no grip tape right now, but that may change... Really --- it comes down to buying a scale and throwing the blaster on it...... I use a food scale in my kitchen..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomfab Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 After experimenting with spring weights (11, 13, 15, 17) and bullet weights (115, 124, 147) I have found a combo I like best. I really can tell quite a difference in sight tracking. Does a specific combo make me a lot faster? No, but I like the way it feels. 13lb spring with 124's for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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