Firing 7 shots

[open17]

What is the penalty for firing more than 6 shots before a reload? I always though it was a trip to Open,

but now I'm not so sure.

IPSC rules--- "one procedural per occurance"

USPSA rules---nothing stated in the revolver appendix, and a search of the rule book using

"revolver" and "6 rounds" turned up nothing.

SO---under current USPSA rules, what is the penalty for firing more than 6 shots before a reload

in Revolver Division, and what is the rule to support your answer?

Hmm-I guess this is really more of a rules question than a revolver question? Move to rules forum?

Edited November 12, 2009 by open17

[sperman]

I think Appendix D covers it:

Line 9: Maximum ammunition capacity: maximum of 6 rounds fired before reload.

Sounds like a trip to open to me.

[Dogged]

I think Appendix D covers it:

Line 9: Maximum ammunition capacity: maximum of 6 rounds fired before reload.

Sounds like a trip to open to me.

6.2.5.1 However, if a competitor fails to satisfy the equipment or other

requirements of a declared Division during a course of fire, the

competitor will be placed in Open Division, if available, otherwise

the competitor will shoot the match for no score.

[open17]

I think Appendix D covers it:

Line 9: Maximum ammunition capacity: maximum of 6 rounds fired before reload.

Sounds like a trip to open to me.

6.2.5.1 However, if a competitor fails to satisfy the equipment or other

requirements of a declared Division during a course of fire, the

competitor will be placed in Open Division, if available, otherwise

the competitor will shoot the match for no score.

OK---guess that rule does cover it.

(puts on nomex suit)

The IPSC rule makes more sense to me. "One procedural per occurance" is enough penalty for being

unable to count to six. Maybe if we changed the USPSA rule to the IPSC rule we would get more participation in

Revolver. Might bring in the ICORE bunch with their 7 shot 627's??

[Carmoney]

I'm not convinced. Virtually everybody who has a 7-shot 686 or 8-shot 627 has a 6-shot revolver laying around somewhere. And for those who don't, I think most would agree that if you can afford to shoot USPSA, you can afford to acquire a 625 or 610.

My initial inclination was that it wouldn't hurt anything to change the rule, but then it occurred to me that you will occasionally see a stage where it would be well worth the procedural penalty to take one extra shot.

On the other hand, shooting a 7-shot or 8-shot .38/.357 is never going to be the best choice in USPSA anyway.

We've pretty much talked this issue to death over the years--when we had a poll on what guns should be allowed in USPSA Revolver Division, there was an overwhelming consensus to keep it six rounds between reloads, and no comped or ported barrels.

[Bubber]

I think Appendix D covers it:

Line 9: Maximum ammunition capacity: maximum of 6 rounds fired before reload.

Sounds like a trip to open to me.

6.2.5.1 However, if a competitor fails to satisfy the equipment or other

requirements of a declared Division during a course of fire, the

competitor will be placed in Open Division, if available, otherwise

the competitor will shoot the match for no score.

OK---guess that rule does cover it.

(puts on nomex suit)

The IPSC rule makes more sense to me. "One procedural per occurance" is enough penalty for being

unable to count to six. Maybe if we changed the USPSA rule to the IPSC rule we would get more participation in

Revolver. Might bring in the ICORE bunch with their 7 shot 627's??

Not meant to flame you or such just some alternative view. A 10 point deduction to "save " you from reloading is a big advantage on some stages. Some of the math would apply on short stages a 15 point deduction (miss and not getting the 5 point for the A) is the same as being 3 seconds slower, thus making it better to skip the reload for the final shot. And on some stages it does not gain anything. But to me it does not matter whichever the board will allow the rules to be. There has been a lang discussion somewhere on this before. later rdd

[ffl]

I'm not convinced. Virtually everybody who has a 7-shot 686 or 8-shot 627 has a 6-shot revolver laying around somewhere. And for those who don't, I think most would agree that if you can afford to shoot USPSA, you can afford to acquire a 625 or 610.

LittleFFL does not have one lying around. However, he could use mine. It is a massive inconvenience at times but do able. I do think the move to open is harsh. However, if a production person modifies his grip in certain ways he can be moved to open even if it did not give a competitive advantage and he/she modified it for looks.

My initial inclination was that it wouldn't hurt anything to change the rule, but then it occurred to me that you will occasionally see a stage where it would be well worth the procedural penalty to take one extra shot.

On the other hand, shooting a 7-shot or 8-shot .38/.357 is never going to be the best choice in USPSA anyway.

We've pretty much talked this issue to death over the years--when we had a poll on what guns should be allowed in USPSA Revolver Division, there was an overwhelming consensus to keep it six rounds between reloads, and no comped or ported barrels.

[Blueridge]

As with any sport there are rules that create the parameters. Those who wish to participate do so by those rules. No sport is perfect, but does it's best to provide fair competition.

Revolvers are generally considered to be 6 shot cylinders, and that is what I believe that the division was based on. There are a number of revolvers that have 7 & 8 shot cylinders, but they are the exception not the rule.

As far as the question goes it seems more appropriate for the penalty to be a procedural, but the current penalty is that of being moved to open division.

Edited November 12, 2009 by Blueridge

[Sigosaur]

Maybe if we changed the USPSA rule to the IPSC rule we would get more participation in

Revolver. Might bring in the ICORE bunch with their 7 shot 627's??

First off, I don't think it matters what's done to Revolver ... no one's shooting it. I used to ... all by myself.

I'm not an IDPA guy ... but they now have two categories for Revolver ... is that right?

My buddy's favorite revolver is his 627 ... his response to "go buy a 625" is "I'll just shoot Ltd".

What exactly would the total damage be, if we were to have major/minor for Revolver as we do for Single Stack? (up to 6rd .40+ is major, and up to 8rd is minor)

Everyone who's competitive in Revolver has a 6-shot 610 or 625 already, right? So they don't need a new gun. And, depending on the courses, they have an advantage. Moreover, using aforementioned logic, if they have a 610 or 625, they probably have a 627 laying around.

[Blueridge]

Maybe if we changed the USPSA rule to the IPSC rule we would get more participation in

Revolver. Might bring in the ICORE bunch with their 7 shot 627's??

First off, I don't think it matters what's done to Revolver ... no one's shooting it. I used to ... all by myself.

I'm not an IDPA guy ... but they now have two categories for Revolver ... is that right?

My buddy's favorite revolver is his 627 ... his response to "go buy a 625" is "I'll just shoot Ltd".

What exactly would the total damage be, if we were to have major/minor for Revolver as we do for Single Stack? (up to 6rd .40+ is major, and up to 8rd is minor)

Everyone who's competitive in Revolver has a 6-shot 610 or 625 already, right? So they don't need a new gun. And, depending on the courses, they have an advantage. Moreover, using aforementioned logic, if they have a 610 or 625, they probably have a 627 laying around.

More and more people are shooting revolver. Just a few weeks ago I competed in the Memphis Charity Challenge, which was a revolver focused match that had 70+ revolver shooters in attendance. In the year prior to that I shot in a majority revolver squad (6+) at a Toys for Tots match held in South Carolina. More and more local matches that I hear about are having larger contingents of revolver shooters participate. Revolver is growing, and the more the merrier.

[bluenite]

6 Shot revolver = revolver,

8 shot revolver = whipping but in production,

8 shot revolver with comp & dot = whipping but in open.

The gun is a tool the result is how good you are with that tool.

There is a place in our sport for any double action revolver.