my new Sig X-5 open gun

[SN13]

Nice looking SIG!

[Flork]

How many ports does that comp have? from the angle of the pics it looks like one big port. Very cool project

Hey guys, this is Scott Folk from Apex Tactical, I'm the putz building this gun for CPUFixer.

The comp has one large port and the barrel has 2 other in-line ports as well. With the ports and comp setup the way they are, this gun is one flat shooter.

Anybody else wanna know anything about the gun?

[-JQ-]

Flork- nice to see you are still milling around!

I have a couple SWAT mags in the classifieds if you need them let me know.

[Flork]

Flork- nice to see you are still milling around!

I have a couple SWAT mags in the classifieds if you need them let me know.

Thanks, I'm glad to still be around.

You might contact CPU Fixer about them...if they're the big sticks, he may want them.

Scott

[CPUFIXER]

Sweet, any update on the Mag situation?

A very well know shooter sold me 2 of the real Sig 25 round "Open" mags that I plan on using, but I need to get in touch with Roger Sherman to get his basepads/followers/etc for my regular 19 round mags as well as converting the 25 rounders.

[-JQ-]

Open mags - Are those made by Mecgar, too?

Just curious...as I'm out of the X5 game...for a while.

[CPUFIXER]

Finished! Thanks to Scott Folk @ Apex Tactical for making this a reality for me. Can't wait to get my gruby little hands on it! Roger's basepads are on the way to finish the mags. Thanks to hk_mtbr for the extra mags.

Edited March 17, 2010 by CPUFIXER

[JFlowers]

CPU,

You shooting it Sunday at Statesville?

[CPUFIXER]

hasn't shipped yet. probably not for Statesville, but definately for Rowan next month.

[-JQ-]

Awesome! CPU

Nice job Flork!

[Flork]

Thanks guys. I'm gonna do a write up about the build just for fun.

I'll tell you, it was a hell of a project and I couldn't have done it without the help and advise from Master Pistol Smiths Bruce Gray and Randy Lee.

Scott

[G-ManBart]

hasn't shipped yet. probably not for Statesville, but definately for Rowan next month.

Just one port on the comp? It'll be a challenge to generate enough gas to work that efficiently. Why didn't they at least split it into to medium big ports instead of one massive one? R,

[Flork]

Just one port on the comp? It'll be a challenge to generate enough gas to work that efficiently. Why didn't they at least split it into to medium big ports instead of one massive one? R,

With the pair of inline ports in the barrel, the comp is best with one large chamber.

[staudacher]

Just one port on the comp? It'll be a challenge to generate enough gas to work that efficiently. Why didn't they at least split it into to medium big ports instead of one massive one? R,

With the pair of inline ports in the barrel, the comp is best with one large chamber.

Scott,

How hard was it to graft that DP magwell onto the X-5??

[eric nielsen]

The magwell - is that Ice for Para, Ice for Glock, Ice for STI? Looks like the Para model.

I'd been thinking there are other guns [CZ,EAA,XDm] where one of the above might work - take the magwell that's a little smaller than the frame dimensions, then machine the difference off the frame.

[G-ManBart]

Just one port on the comp? It'll be a challenge to generate enough gas to work that efficiently. Why didn't they at least split it into to medium big ports instead of one massive one? R,

With the pair of inline ports in the barrel, the comp is best with one large chamber.

That would seem to be at odds with all the 9mm Major and Super/SC Major guns that have popple holes and multi-port comps. If anything, many of them run smaller main chambers, not larger.

An inline port will drop the pressure and then it's being dumped into a massive port that would need more total volume and pressure to generate the same amount of upward gas movement (downward pressure).

Has anybody done a direct comparison between that setup and one with a multi-port comp? It's hard to imagine all those gunsmiths building guns with popple holes and multi-port comps being wrong for so long...only reason I ask. R,

[Flork]

We've found that it's the size of the port holes in the barrel and their location that makes the most difference. After calibrating the port holes to reduce muzzle flip to an optimal degree, we set up the comp. accordingly. It's all in the routing of the gasses. It's the Mach cone that we're capturing to create the upward blast through the comp.

Mike Voigt is the guy to talk to about comp design. Multi port comps sell so well because they're more pleasing to the eye as opposed to working best.

This gun started out with a massive 3 port comp. as you can see in the following photo.

The recoil and muzzle flip was still so much that it was uncomfortable to shoot for all of us at the shop.

When I came to Apex from GGI, I reduced the comp to 2 parts and stuck in one port hole in the barrel, it helped but the second hole really knocked down the muzzle flip. Randy recommended opening up the comp into one big port and that really killed the over recoil impulse. All I can say is that it works.

[Pezco]

Interesting port design and discussion. I would be interested to see a side profile video while the gun is being shot to gauge the muzzle flip.

[duramaxtech]

We've found that it's the size of the port holes in the barrel and their location that makes the most difference. After calibrating the port holes to reduce muzzle flip to an optimal degree, we set up the comp. accordingly. It's all in the routing of the gasses. It's the Mach cone that we're capturing to create the upward blast through the comp.

Mike Voigt is the guy to talk to about comp design. Multi port comps sell so well because they're more pleasing to the eye as opposed to working best.

This gun started out with a massive 3 port comp. as you can see in the following photo.

The recoil and muzzle flip was still so much that it was uncomfortable to shoot for all of us at the shop.

When I came to Apex from GGI, I reduced the comp to 2 parts and stuck in one port hole in the barrel, it helped but the second hole really knocked down the muzzle flip. Randy recommended opening up the comp into one big port and that really killed the over recoil impulse. All I can say is that it works.

Now you're saying that a single port with blow holes (poppet holes or whatever you want to call them) works bettter, does that apply strictly with 9mm Major?

I've always felt that the gases striking the wipers (forward walls of the compensator) are part of what makes them work and not just the gas flow through the ports. In other calibers producing a higher volume of gas do you think it would be different? I agree some get carried away with the comps, saw a guy that made a comp with 4 vertical ports and 3 pairs of side blasters that was so long and heavy the gun would not run, but that was on a different platform and a different caliber.

[Flork]

In my experience it works with all calibers.

[mloch]

Hi Scott,

I´m really interested on how you attached the magwell to the X-Five. Could you please tell how you did it? What kind of magwell did you use?

I´m shooting an X-Five myself and since the beginning I´m searching for an alternative to the Sig factory magwell.

Best regards,

Marijan

[Flork]

I used a Dawson Ice Magwell for the Para Ordnance. I did some milling on the inside of the magwell to open it up to fit on the outside of the grips. I stuck a set screw on the front to keep it in place on the frame where I ground a divot for the screw tip. On the back end I tapped the holes for screws and ground divots into the grips to retain the mag well at the back end. I had to take some material off the inside of the magwell to accommodate the magazine bodies and the stop plate on the big sticks. I'm not sure how well it's gonna work with factory mags just yet.

[mloch]

Hi Scott,

thanks for the fast and detailed answer.

Have you ever thought about modifying a magwell for a small frame Tanfoglio/EAA or CZ in order to put it on a sig?

What about welding one of Richard Dettelhouser`s magwells for the small frame EAA (Match model) to a X-Five?

Best regards,

Marijan

[Flork]

When I was at GGI, I used to weld on the Custom GGI magwells and blend them in (Torie does an awesome job of that now) on the P220ST frames. We had talked about doing mag wells for the 226, but we did not have them off the ground by the time I left. I'm sure somebody else's mag well can be used, Ive just never looked into it.

Scott

[duramaxtech]

In my experience it works with all calibers.

Interesting, while its been a number of years since I have built a race gun I can say that my experience with 38 super is that multiple ports are more effective than single. My current gun uses a triple port (all vertical) with a single blow hole. I'd considered a second blow hole but decided against it. When I first switched to 38 super I used a two port comp, it worked pretty good but when I built my next gun I used a Jet Comp (yes I'm dating myself) but found the Jet ports while effective wore and eroded quickly, so I just chucked it up in a mill and opened up a 4th port at the back of the comp where the chamber and jet ports had been. After about another 10K rounds the comp cracked but prior to that it shot smoother, flatter and with less recoil and muzzle flip than any 38 super open gun I had shot to that point and have yet to shoot one better. One of the things I did do with my comps was I wanted flatter forward walls that I refer to as wipers. I also prefer a larger back port with the forward ports the same size. Personally I think that the use of blow holes while good for reducing muzzle flip do little to reduce recoil. The gases striking the wipers do push forward on the comp reducing not just muzzle flip but recoil as well. Having shot a 38 super with a hybrid barrel and no comp is quite interesting, they do tend to reduce muzzle flip but they can be a handful and are not much better than shooting a production style 38 super with the same loads. Keep in mind I'm not a fan of huge heavy comps and don't believe that more ports are better. Just my opinions, I may still one day put a second blow hole in that race gun but not today.