Why aren't there many Sig P250's on the scene

[G-ManBart]

Sig is known for their DA/SA trigger system. I doubt their going to dramatically change their bread and butter. Bruce Gray built me a P226 for Production Division that has a 5.5-lb DA trigger pull and a 2.5-lb trigger pull with a reset that's one quarter of the factor reset length. What more do you want? Guns like this will never come from the factory's mass production line. They are custom pieces similar to your 2011.

True, no doubt, but they have tried to make inroads into the DOA world with the DAK system so it's not something they totally have avoided.

Maybe a refinement of the DAK would be a good fit here? I like the second strike ability, if nothing else....wouldn't seem impossible to refine/develp that general concept into something with a bit broader appeal. Shorten up the pull, lighten it up to 4lbs and it'd be a winner as long as it was smooth and stack free. R,

[Duane Thomas]

USPSA's first-ever Production Grand Master, David Olhasso, did it with an aluminum framed SIG P226. One of our best local IDPA shooters, and most recent Washington State IDPA Champion in SSP, did it with a SIG P226. So it's certainly a viable platform. Having said that, the OP is right, in the overall scheme of things it's not that popular a choice. I think the location of the slide stop lever, and the fact that many folks' iteration of the straight thumbs grip holds down the slide stop resulting in the gun not locking open when empty, is a big turn-off for a lot of people. Still, great guns.

[sgtis108]

They are custom pieces similar to your 2011.

My point is, that yes you can do it with a Sig 250.

Sig could make it easier though.

Bruce Gray is the man. I saw an interview on the shooting gallery website, with Bruce Gray. I agreed 100% with everything he said. That is a rarity for me.

I am a Leo Trainer. I teach Firearms @ the academy. DA/SA is hard to teach/learn. G-man is right on with his assesment of the difference between DA/SA vs. DAO.

[HuskySig]

Maybe a refinement of the DAK would be a good fit here? I like the second strike ability, if nothing else....wouldn't seem impossible to refine/develp that general concept into something with a bit broader appeal. Shorten up the pull, lighten it up to 4lbs and it'd be a winner as long as it was smooth and stack free.

I've played with one DAK equipped Sig and this was about three years ago. From the best of my memory, the DAK felt great. The reset seemed a bit long compared to the reset of my DA/SA gun. Since then I've read about multiple problems with light strikes on the primers on guns that are fresh from the factory. To me, Sigs come from the factory sprung with garage door springs. I can't imagine trying to lighten up a DAK gun that's already on the verge of having problems with light primer strikes.

Back to the original question, why aren't there more P250s? This is squarely on the shoulders of Sig. They released the P250 initially with one frame size and barrel length. The modularity that was the main driving point behind the P250 hasn't materialized. I haven't seen any place where you can purchase the sub-compact, compact, or full size frame. I haven't seen any place that's selling complete slide assemblies in the sub-compact, compact, or full sizes. How about the different caliber conversions? Right now I can purchase a complete P250 in one size chambered in one of four calibers. Great. Now what if I want to go from .45 to 9mm with a different size frame and different length slide? I'm SOL, because those parts aren't available in great quantity.

[mindcrime]

Interesting thread, thought that I would chime in. I work the range for a large western police dept. We have an extensive approved list for our officers to choose from. Sig has brought the 250 in 9 and 45 down numerous times to try to get us to bite. There is a far larger market in law enforcement contracts than in USPSA. Therefore, they market the gun from an administration standpoint not from a shooters viewpoint. I can tell you that the 9mm's ran fine for the several hundred rounds that we had time for, but the 45 did not: many fail to feeds and locking slides open midstride, it seemed that the rounds in the mag were hitting the slidestop. The rep had just been to another local PD, where the gun had worked fine. Also, the slide is very heavy, and with the height of the bore axis, the gun is very hard to fire accurately at speed as it seems to go directly to the sky in recoil.

Instead of arguing who has more extensive firearms knowledge, why not just test them ? My splits when firing Bill Drills with a well-set up Glock 17 or a Smith m&p are .14 to .18 with good hits. The best I could manage with the 9mm 250 was .30 to .45. Not only was I far slower and I had to work far harder, I was far less consistent. It was also really easy to shortstroke it and really mess up. My experiences were echoed by the other instructors. We did not bench rest, but the gun seemed really hard to fire accurately. Don't know if it was the trigger or the accuracy of the guns but the groups at distance were also far larger than Glocks, m&p's or xd's.

And for those who think that the DAK is the answer, it's not. It is basically the same trigger as the 250 but with two points of reset. If you shortstroke it the pull is harder, to get the light dao it has to be released the same distance as a 250. It is quite a mess.

Like others have said, the classics like a 226 is far more competitive for our sport. The 250 won't make it.

[shadow106]

Well let me try and take you past all the rumor ......and Internet myths ......

The P-250 is not as popular as it could be is because SIG shot themselves in the foot with the introduction of this new design ........ meaning they could not meet the demand for the new Conversion "kits" to change over the pistol to other calibers.

Except for a few ( read very few ) minor problems the pistol had when it first hit the streets, SIG has corrected all of the bugs usually incountered when releasing a new design. The P-250 in 45 acp that I own has sent 500 rds down range - flawlessly.

Not being able to supply owners with Conversion Kits really caused a bad taste with SIG owners and they constantly bashed the Pistol every chance they got ........ most of it was deserved. These Conversion Kits were suppose to sell in the market place for around $399. I ask you .... where can you find a quality pistol for $399 ??? Including Night Sights !! IF you needed to buy an additional Grip frame .......... to go from say a full size down to a sub -compact ....it will cost another $45. Still not bad IMHO.

As to the design : <There are otther guns with better features for the same price> I don't know about this one. The ploymer P-250's RAIL System is a very thick one piece steel chassis. Unlike most other ploymer designs where the rails are individual small steel implants embedded into the polymer frame ( Glock, Walther P-99 etc. ) . The P-250's rail system must also be able to handle mutiple calibers from the powerful Sig 357 down to the 9mm. One piece Rail design and Steel on Steel Barrel lock-up leads to Sigs renoun accuracy.

Supported chamber design - Unlike some Glock models which can have unsupported chambers ........ the Sig P-250's chamber is almost 99.99% supported ..... only a tiny sliver of cartridge casing is exposed in the 45 acp model. The only other semi-auto pistol that does better in this department is the H&K pistols. Reliable feeding without compromising chamber support - a big plus for SIG.

Trigger pull: Yes, the P-250 has a long DAO trigger pull ........... and is not for the novice. The trigger pull will turn away many shooters not willing to put the time into mastering the long pull. BUT it is one of the smoothest pulls you will ever encounter in a DAO pistol ....... and coming in at about 4 - 5 lbs. pull ........ it is easier to squeeze than a standard Factory Glock.

It is true that this pistol will naturally slow down your shooting speed somewhat, but it has been my experience that during high stress situations we tend to shoot too fast anyways - missing the intended target . Many times " Slower is Faster" and it is not always who shoots first but who hits the target first - that walks away. Just for the record, it has taken me about 500 rounds with the 45 acp P-250 to get the trigger pull stroke down to an acceptable close combat speed and accuracy. This is a minimum ability with this pistol that will require many, many more rounds to really master the weapon.

Will it ever rise to the top as a competition pistol ........... I would guess not .....because no matter how good you get with the pistol, it will never allow the same shooting speeds as other SA/DA semi-autos. BUT I do feel it will find a place for Home defense where the owner needs a SAFE and simple design that requires minimum trips to the range to stay familiar with the pistol's operation. Like the Glock, this pistol has no levers to operate or De-cock. It allows you to practice with the cheaper 9mm cartridge

and in less than one minute convert the pistol into a 40 S&W or .45 acp !! for more power and knock-down .

The P-250 45 acp along with my Glcok 17 handles all my CCW requirements .............

JF.

[shadow106]

XLNT response, and I can't think of anything you've overlooked. I have a compact P250 in .40, and it works for me. First time I fired it, I was totally surprised at how well I did with it, and even the long pull didn't get in my way. I have close to double the rounds through mine that you've fired, all since December of 2010, and I carry it CCW, alternating with two other CCW weapons about once a month. That keeps me in tune with all of them, ergonomically. One last remark, then I'll get out of the way:

I've been carrying handguns of various types, makes, and models daily since 1965. I've been trained, given training, and I now shoot weekly since I'm retired, as opposed to quarterly for "qualification". Any gun that takes "thousands" of rounds to break in, get used to, or whatever, is NOT a gun I will use for duty or personal defense. If the bugs aren't worked out by 800-1000 rounds, or if it just doesn't work for the person shooting it, then its junk and should be liquidated. I form my opinion of a weapon from personal, hands-on time with the piece, and not from "my cousins, brothers, uncle's friends" comments, about what they read in a magazine or on the net.

For me, the P250 works. If other's don't like it....., oh well. I'm a shooter. Not an Evangelist.

[LittleLebowski]

Except for a few ( read very few ) minor problems the pistol had when it first hit the streets, SIG has corrected all of the bugs usually incountered when releasing a new design. The P-250 in 45 acp that I own has sent 500 rds down range - flawlessly.

You are way out of your lane here. The Federal Air Marshalls just recently grounded all P250s due to reliability problems.

[LittleLebowski]

Are you suggesting that a semi-auto that shoots 500 rounds right out of the box - flawlessly - is all of a sudden going to turn into a jam-o-matic later on ??? I have never seen that happen in the 40 years I have been shooting pistols.

Since you consider 500 rounds a lot of rounds and a test of reliability, I'm not surprised. I just had a Gen4 G19 start stovepiping after over 4k rds. My shooting buddy suffered an identical experience.

[Solvability]

I shot a 226 for years and bought the 250 when it first hit the stores. It never felt as good or was as reliable as the 226. The shorter barrel was not an asset in competition.

I went straight from it to a Glock and stayed Glock.

I keep the 226 as a carry weapon it is a superior firearm.

[JAFO]

Except for a few ( read very few ) minor problems the pistol had when it first hit the streets, SIG has corrected all of the bugs usually incountered when releasing a new design. The P-250 in 45 acp that I own has sent 500 rds down range - flawlessly.

You are way out of your lane here. The Federal Air Marshalls just recently grounded all P250s due to reliability problems.

I prefer the Classic series to the 250 myself, but you do realize that you're criticizing somebody today over a comment he made back in 2009, right?

Edited May 18, 2011 by JAFO

[LittleLebowski]

Yeah, I missed that, JAFO. I have shot a FAM issue P250. I'm glad they are no longer issued.