USPSA IPSC Production Differences

[Bill Nesbitt]

Does anybody have a list of differences between USPSA and IPSC Production so I can see if my Wife's Glock 17 is legal for IPSC? It has Dawson adjustable sights and the trigger pull is about 4# as it is right now. Are the Dawson's legal? If not, what is? Are fiber optic front sights allowed? I can fix the trigger if needed.

Thanks,

Bill

[lynn jones]

here are a few:

you can load your magazines up to capacity.

trigger pull is weighed

no extended base pads to add capacity

http://www.ipsc.org/pdf/RulesHandgun.pdf see page 55

Production Division

1 Minimum power factor for Major Not applicable

2 Minimum power factor for Minor 125

3 Minimum bullet weight No

4 Minimum bullet caliber / cartridge case length 9mm (0.354”) / 19mm (0.748")

5 Minimum bullet caliber for Major Not applicable

6 Minimum trigger pull (see Appendix F2) 2.27 kg (5lbs) for first shot

7 Maximum handgun size Maximum barrel length 127mm (5”)

8 Maximum magazine length Yes, see below.

9 Maximum ammunition capacity No

10 Max. distance of handgun and mags/speed loaders from torso 50mm

11 Rule 5.2.3.1 applies Yes

12 Restriction on position of holster and other equipment Yes, see below.

13 Optical/electronic sights permitted No

14 Compensators permitted No

15 Ports permitted No

Only handguns approved and listed on the IPSC website may be used in Production Division.

Single-action-only handguns are prohibited. Handguns with external hammers must be fully decocked. First shot attempted must be double action. Competitors in this Division who, after the issuance of the start signal and prior to attempting the first shot, cock the hammer on a handgun which has a loaded chamber, will incur one procedural penalty per occurrence. Note that a procedural penalty will not be assessed in respect of courses of fire where the ready condition requires the competitor to prepare the handgun with an empty chamber. In these cases, the competitor may fire the first shot single action.

Neither the handgun, nor any of its attachments, nor any allied equipment (e.g. magazines or other loading devices), can extend forward of the line illustrated in Appendix F3. Any such items a Range Officer deems not to be in compliance must be safely and promptly adjusted, failing which Rule 6.2.5.1 will apply.

Original parts and components offered by the OFM as standard equipment, or as an option, for a specific model handgun on the IPSC approved handgun list are permitted, subject to the following:

Modifications to them, other than minor detailing, are prohibited. Prohibited modifications include changing the original color and/or finish of a handgun, and/or adding stripes or other embellishments.

Base plates and/or any other devices which provide additional ammunition capacity (e.g. "+2" magazine extensions), are prohibited.

Sights may be trimmed, adjusted and/or have sight black applied.

Aftermarket parts, components and accessories are prohibited, except as follows:

Aftermarket magazines which match the external dimensions of standard magazines offered by the OFM for the approved handgun are permitted.

Aftermarket sights of the same type and kind offered by the OFM for the approved handgun are permitted, provided their installation and/or adjustment requires no alteration to the handgun.

Aftermarket grips which match the profile of the OFM standard for the approved handgun and/or the application of tape on grips is permitted, however, rubber sleeves are prohibited.

A competitor who fails to comply with any of the requirements above will be subject to Rule 6.2.5.1

Edited August 28, 2009 by lynn jones

[Bill Nesbitt]

Thanks, Lynn. I had already read the rules. I was wondering how the sight question has been intrepreted in the real world?

Bill

[Nik Habicht]

Thanks, Lynn. I had already read the rules. I was wondering how the sight question has been intrepreted in the real world?

Bill

Have you checked the Global Village? I believe (but I'm operating off memory here) that you're good on sights. Do we know who is RMing the match? Perhaps ask him/her?

[Flexmoney]

This would be a good place to sort out some of those differences.

I am pretty sure that, for IPSC Production, any post and notch type replacement sight is legal, as long as you don't mill the slide to install it.

[Canuck223]

You'll need to shitcan the adjustables. Replacement sights need to be OEM if adjustable, although fixed sights and fiber optic front sights can be aftermarket.

The short version of IPSC Production rules is simple. OEM, period. You can add grip tape, and that's about it. If your gun has any tuned or aftermarket parts, it ain't production. Mags are OEM, or aftermarket that share the same external dimentions. No capacity adding base pads are allowed. OEM mags must use the factory basepad.

[Flexmoney]

Adjustables are legal according to 2006 interpretations.

Looking at the IPSC FAQ's....ANY open sights are Production legal.

7. Can I replace the original 3-dot sights on my Glock 17 with aftermarket 3-dot fiber optic sights?

Yes. You can use any open sights. See Point 20.2 of Appendix D4 in the January 2009 Edition of the IPSC Handgun rulebook.

IPSC rule FAQ's: http://ipsc.org/rulesfaq.htm

[walter hornby]

Bill

for as long as you do not have to cut the slide you can use any open sights that fit the gun.

5 pound trigger is a must and is usually measured using a weight. not sure how you guys south of the border are going to do it.

Mags must be same dimensions as OEM mags.

no capacity restriction on mags.

I think those are the biggies off of the top of my head.

[VegasOPM]

I used a G17 in the Curacao Open with Sevigny sights, skateboard tape and the mag and slide release from a 34. The only thing they were really worried about were stippling, slide lightening and the damn 5# trigger. If you fail the trigger test, welcome to Open (minor... with iron sights... and no comp...)

[Nik Habicht]

I used a G17 in the Curacao Open with Sevigny sights, skateboard tape and the mag and slide release from a 34. The only thing they were really worried about were stippling, slide lightening and the damn 5# trigger. If you fail the trigger test, welcome to Open (minor... with iron sights... and no comp...)

Nice IPSC matches apparently conduct an equipment check prior to competitors firing the first shot --- thereby allowing competitors who flunk the ability to correct the mistake, or to switch to a more appropriate division....

[Chris Keen]

That would be easy to do up to a point, Nik. A visual check could be done for grip stippling, and magazines, and possibly even sights and or slide work. But the 5 pound trigger is supposed to only be checked by the chrono station. That would be impossible to run every Production shooter through chrono prior to the 1st stage simply to check their trigger. That needs to be done at home prior to the match.

On the other hand I have been to quite a few Area matches where they did an equipment check on the 1st stage based on what division you were shooting. That was simple to do, and done in a friendly manner .... meant to enforce the rules, yet help the shooters who just didnt know about certain restrictions correct themselves before firing the 1st shot.

Edited August 29, 2009 by Chris Keen

[Flexmoney]

The USA IPSC Nationals...( as I understand it )... will be using the weights and method for measuring triggers per the IPSC rule book. (not an electronic trigger gauge, like I just saw in Front Sight...nor an RCBS spring guage).

I'll ask Mr. Chrono (CRO) if he'd be willing to let the Production shooters check their triggers out when they come through chrono while shooting the Ohio on the day before. Chrono usually runs faster than the other stages...there may be time.

There will be an "equipment check" before each squad shoots each stage. There will be an IPSC equipment check sheet to go with it. Remember...when getting checked...to turn your head and cough. !

[Nik Habicht]

That would be easy to do up to a point, Nik. A visual check could be done for grip stippling, and magazines, and possibly even sights and or slide work. But the 5 pound trigger is supposed to only be checked by the chrono station. That would be impossible to run every Production shooter through chrono prior to the 1st stage simply to check their trigger. That needs to be done at home prior to the match.

On the other hand I have been to quite a few Area matches where they did an equipment check on the 1st stage based on what division you were shooting. That was simple to do, and done in a friendly manner .... meant to enforce the rules, yet help the shooters who just didnt know about certain restrictions correct themselves before firing the 1st shot.

It'd be harder/near impossible to do for a one-day match for sure.....

Most IPSC match that manage this are multi-day affairs; the process is done during the registration time slot if I understand it correctly. Think checking in at Nats, and then visiting chrono once you have your shooter's packet. Chronoman and several assistants might be close by with tables set-up to do whatever needs doing....

OTOH, you're mostly doing this just for production shooters -- since they face the most stringent restrictions....

[walter hornby]

I used a G17 in the Curacao Open with Sevigny sights, skateboard tape and the mag and slide release from a 34. The only thing they were really worried about were stippling, slide lightening and the damn 5# trigger. If you fail the trigger test, welcome to Open (minor... with iron sights... and no comp...)

Nice IPSC matches apparently conduct an equipment check prior to competitors firing the first shot --- thereby allowing competitors who flunk the ability to correct the mistake, or to switch to a more appropriate division....

Nik

not always true. at a big match they will sometimes run a pre-equipment check. However this is run just as a courtesy and is not done at all matches.

[Nik Habicht]

Nik

not always true. at a big match they will sometimes run a pre-equipment check. However this is run just as a courtesy and is not done at all matches.

Like I said --- nice IPSC matches......

....I get that it can't always be done. I applaud those matches that manage it; I think they're serving their customers very well.....

[Cigar Guy]

The USA IPSC Nationals...( as I understand it )... will be using the weights and method for measuring triggers per the IPSC rule book. (not an electronic trigger gauge, like I just saw in Front Sight...nor an RCBS spring guage).

I'll ask Mr. Chrono (CRO) if he'd be willing to let the Production shooters check their triggers out when they come through chrono while shooting the Ohio on the day before. Chrono usually runs faster than the other stages...there may be time.

There will be an "equipment check" before each squad shoots each stage. There will be an IPSC equipment check sheet to go with it. Remember...when getting checked...to turn your head and cough. !

Flex,

Is there already a thread on differences between IPSC and USPSA rules going, or should one be started? Obviously, Production Division is going to be trickiest, but I see some other possible issues. For example, an Open shooter with a major load that makes 165 PF, but with a 115 grain bullet. It makes 160 PF under IPSC rules, but is unsafe ammunition and must be withdrawn. Limited shooter with a 165 < 170 PF load is minor under IPSC rules, or gun does not fit the box. Other issues possible, but I would hate to see someone trying to make the World team for the first time who has only shot USPSA matches.

[Flexmoney]

I don't know that there is another such thread. Probably a good idea!

[Cigar Guy]

I don't know that there is another such thread. Probably a good idea!

Okay, will start one here with those examples.