Primer & Powder distribution Idea

[CHA-LEE]

I have an idea for the current Primer & Powder shortage. If a Primer & Powder reseller setup a deal where you could sign up for an annual contract of purchasing X amount of primers and X amount of powder every month would you do it? For example, lets say on average you need 5000 primers and 4lbs of powder each month to fulfill your shooting needs (Practice and Matches). So you would sign up for an annual contract to purchase 5K of primers and 4lbs of powder each month. They would ship it on the same day every month and just charge your credit card each month. Of course this would be an annual contract and you would have to pay each month regardless of whether you really need the stuff or not. Or set a minimum order each month and you can add more if you need it. Something a little flexible like that?

That way you would get a constant flow of Primers & Powder and there would be no need to go crazy with hording whatever you can get your hands on. This is of course assuming that any vendors out there could get a consistent supply of product or stock pile product to support something like this.

How many shooters would be willing to sign up for something like this? I know I would in an instant.

A plan like this might help even out the current situation where you have some shooters hording 100,000+ primers and it would take them 20 years to shoot them all up. Then on the other side of the street you have the regular shooters that are continually scraping together whatever they can get their hands on paying excessive prices for the items and on shipping. This would also help establish a more even flow of the product through the system, instead of the current tidal wave of product then barren desert cycle that keeps happening.

I am not affiliated with any Primer or Powder manufactures, vendors, resellers or retailers. I am just trying to throw some ideas out there to help bring some stability to the current situation. Right now it’s a vicious circle where shooters are overbuying because they are not sure if they will ever get any more in a decent amount of time. Or you end up being forced to use a product that isn’t what you normally use because it’s the only thing you can get at the given time.

If this is a favorable idea then maybe some vendors might be willing to start a program like this? If there is enough interest it couldn’t hurt to ask right?

[Graham Smith]

I think that the limiting factor in that would be the ~$35 per order Shipping and Hazmat charge. I'd rather get a 6 - 12 month supply all at once and save a few bucks.

[Z32MadMan]

I don't think the distributers would take the time and go through the hassle to do that right now. Hell, right now they have a product which sells out as soon as they get it, at inflated prices. What is that advantage for them? Plus I'm sure the primer supply isn't even close to being constant enough for them to be able to ship at regular intervals.

Now when this crisis/shortage thing is over and things are back to normal, this system may increase their sales a bit.

Just my thoughts.

It sure would be nice to get primers once a month though....

Cheers!

[Rob Boudrie]

The hazmat fee is a killer - the ROI of stockpiling is tremendous when you consider $22.50 per order and a current risk free market rate of under 2% on parked cash.

What might be more useful is waiting until "times of plenty", and then negotiating a large group deal with a reputable supplier The key word is "reputable", since you won' know if they hold up their end of the bargain until SHTF time and there is another shortage. We won't have any bargaining clout until vendors actually have to compete for our business again.

The deal would be simple: We will all place our orders with you only, even if you don't have the absolute lowest price, provided you have the product available. In return, you agree we will be "served first" in the times of any future shortage.

Just imagine what it would be for a power/primer supplier's business if they advertised "If you are a USPSA member and order all of your supplies from us, we will maintain a record of your ordering pattern. If there is another shortage, we will put you at the front of our line for purchase of supplies at a rate equal to your historical purchases from us." (hint, hint, to any vendors reading this). If a shortage develops, they would accept "front of line" back orders from plan members equal to (for example), the amount of a similar product purchased within the last year.

A plan like this might help even out the current situation where you have some shooters hording 100,000+ primers

It's only hoarding when someone else does it and you are running low. When you do it, it's called maintaining an appropriate inventory of strategic materials.

[CHA-LEE]

I don't know about you guys but I would be more than glad to pay the Haz Mat fee's to get a consistent flow of Primers and Powder to my door every month. $25 - $35 a month in Hazmat Fees is less than the entry fee of two or three local matches. Or a tank of gas in your car. Its chump change in the big picture of what you spend to shoot and compete on a monthly basis so I don't see why people always whine about it.

Some how its perfectly ok to dump hundreds if not thousands of dollars into your pistols for parts or hop ups but tack on a Haz Mat shipping fee and its a huge expense

[CHA-LEE]

If you truly need 100,000 primers to support your shooting needs for a reasonable time frame (Not more than a year of shooting), I wouldn’t consider that “Hording”. But when you see person after person bragging about stock piling 100,000 primers when they shoot MAYBE 10,000 rounds a year, that is “Hording”. No one “Needs” 10 Years worth of primers sitting on a shelf not being used. Everyone needs primers to shoot. I don’t understand the hording mentality, but it happens all over the place.

[Rob Boudrie]

I don't know about you guys but I would be more than glad to pay the Haz Mat fee's to get a consistent flow of Primers and Powder to my door every month. $25 - $35 a month in Hazmat Fees is less than the entry fee of two or three local matches. Or a tank of gas in your car. Its chump change in the big picture of what you spend to shoot and compete on a monthly basis so I don't see why people always whine about it.

Let's assume you use a case of 5K/month - WAY more than I use

Buy annually - one $22.50 hazmat fee, but you're typing up 6 cases on average. At $150 a case, that's $900 worth of inventory on an average day, or $15/year opportunity cost at current CD rates - total carrying costs $37.50 plus shipping and primer cost.

Buy monthly - 14x$22.50 = $247.50 hazmat fees, but you pocket $15 in interest on that money saved - so you're only paying $232.50 extra for the convenience of monthly delivery. Many would consider monthly deliver as an inconvenience, rather than a convenience, when compared to picking a new case off the pile in the reloading room.

I don’t understand the hording mentality, but it happens all over the place.

It's easy - the mentality is based on "I may not be able to get this if I run out, so I had better stock up". Sort of like buying more guns whenever democrats get elected.

[Jman]

Sounds good (little pricey) for the end user. Sounds like a logistical nightmare for a wholesale distributer. A million little boxes going everywhere. Not happening. The old group buy concept still works...sort of. You might entice a wholesaler or two with a $50K+ order dropped shipped to ONE address, like your club, etc. Ultimately it is a numbers thing. Distributors need BIG ones, really big. We amount to little ones, really little.

Jim

[Matt P.]

Sounds good (little pricey) for the end user. Sounds like a logistical nightmare for a wholesale distributer. A million little boxes going everywhere. Not happening. The old group buy concept still works...sort of. You might entice a wholesaler or two with a $50K+ order dropped shipped to ONE address, like your club, etc. Ultimately it is a numbers thing. Distributors need BIG ones, really big. We amount to little ones, really little.

Jim

It really is not a logistical nightmare. Most modern day software manages that type of business VERY well. The problem is the end user can cancel a credit card at any point therefore leaving their "commitment" to the distributor and now the distributor has an overstock.

Really, it's the distributors job to be "our" long term storage facility. They just can't make the Manufacturers of the products make more to supply their shelf.

The inventory problem will soon be over and everyone will be climbing over their giant stock piles of product.

[CHA-LEE]

If I was worried about spending an extra $250 a year on shipping fee's then I would be to cheap to even shoot at all. As for shipping every month being a pain, profit is profit. These companies are making profit on the product, the shipping and the hazmat fee's. So enlighten me on how its in their best interest to make less profit by shipping less frequently? If you agree to a specific quantity every month for a year they are still going to get your money AND they still have stock to support other customers as well. How is that a bad thing?

Yes, it does make more sense to order all that you need for a year in one bulk order. The problem is that you CAN'T do that these days. The whole reason for this idea is because there IS NOT enough Primers and Powder to support an annual bulk order from everyone. This is painfully obvious when you go searching for powder and primers to buy or have an outstanding backorder that is 9 months old and still not filled.

Ordering and getting an annual amount of primers and powder right now is NOT a viable option. This thread is a thought for an alternative solution.

I guess this is a bad idea after all with so much resistance. Sorry to cause any trouble.

[CHA-LEE]

Matt P.> There are many ways to work around the payment situation and canceling payments. If you sign a contract stipulating that you are going buy X amount over X time you are liable for that. A contract is a contract. Or you could pay it all up front. The logistics of the payments is not really the focus of this discussion.

All I can say is that if this was an "Offering" made by Primer & Powder vendors I would gladly sign up for it TODAY with a smile knowing that I don't have to worry about finding them any more. No more wasting time searching the internet or local stores for primers, comparing prices, following up on backorders, and on and on and on. Just open my front door on X day of the month and find what I need at the door step. Simple and effective. Would I pay extra Haz Mat and shipping fees for this piece of mind, absolutely!!!! Time is money and searching for these things wastes a lot of it.

Now if I could only get my dog to run my reloading press while I am at work during the day.......

[Sarge]

[larry cazes]

If you truly need 100,000 primers to support your shooting needs for a reasonable time frame (Not more than a year of shooting), I wouldn’t consider that “Hording”. But when you see person after person bragging about stock piling 100,000 primers when they shoot MAYBE 10,000 rounds a year, that is “Hording”. No one “Needs” 10 Years worth of primers sitting on a shelf not being used. Everyone needs primers to shoot. I don’t understand the hording mentality, but it happens all over the place.

Last time a dem took office, I got caught sleeping and was left without. This time I learned from my mistakes and planned ahead accordingly. I somewhat resent the assertion of some folks on here that I have done something less than honorable in this respect. I agree with the other folks who would just rather buy in bulk. This too shall pass.......Learn from it.

[Sean Gaines]

I spoke with chris Hodgdon, they can't get powder to thier distributors, much less to people with individual contracts. I think it would be an idea for them to make money, but the problem is breach of contracts, probably not worth it to them. He forsees another 6 months of hoarding, and then he sees things will start slowing down a little bit. But demand is greater than supply right now, so we just have to use what we can get for right now, until demand slows.