HuskySig Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Are there 49 GM production shooters on file Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammowaster Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Are there 49 GM production shooters on file Yes That is pretty impressive to me. Makes it a coveted position. I didnt realize there were so few GM Production guys. Just another goal to shoot for:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskySig Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 GM in any division should be coveted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 It takes a lot of discipline to shoot a smaller capacity division...more so with Minor power factor. I think you are on to something. I often hear shooters say something to the effect of "I just want to have fun!" - and there are many ways to define what we find "fun" in this sport. Many define "fun" as: going as fast as possible without stopping to reload or worrying about maximizing points. Major Limited and Open would obviously be attractive to such folks. To each his own. I enjoy aspects of every Division. Heck, I just like shooting, period. I was kind of wondering this as well. I'm sure there are many factors such as Production being so new relative to other divisions like open and limited. Interesting enough though.. at many of the local matches- production does seem to be getting real good attendance lately... usually comparable to open and limited. This again may just be that it's "cost effective" to start there. For me... I have some A level shooters that I need to catch up to... so if no one makes master that's ok for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Hello: So you saying there are only 989 Production "B" shooters and I am one of them----"That's Cool". Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 it seems production is pretty popular amongst the newer shooters or shooters from other divisions taking a break. you see a lot of U, D, and C class shooters..then you see them break away into Limited or L10, maybe open. at Master..I think a few of those might be GMs in the other divisions taking the break from their primary division and being classified. In our section.. Production and Limited have the numbers..but Limited is the most contested in all classifications. We have a few GM production shooters, one or two Ms, and then it drops down to B, C, D classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Hello: So you saying there are only 989 Production "B" shooters and I am one of them----"That's Cool". Thanks, Eric yes Eric...THAT IS COOL!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskySig Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I believe the Northwest Section has more Production GM shooters than Production M shooters. What does that say, if anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 I believe the Northwest Section has more Production GM shooters than Production M shooters. What does that say, if anything? Not sure. The top shooters in Production are in the NW? There are 49 GMs and 173 Ms total in Production. Compared to 143 GMs and 521 Ms in Open with roughly the same total classified shooters in each group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammowaster Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 GM in any division should be coveted. Absolutely. I just did not realize how few there were Hello: So you saying there are only 989 Production "B" shooters and I am one of them----"That's Cool". Thanks, Eric Feels good huh. Now the fight for A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 GM in any division should be coveted. Absolutely. I just did not realize how few there were Hello: So you saying there are only 989 Production "B" shooters and I am one of them----"That's Cool". Thanks, Eric Feels good huh. Now the fight for A Hello: That is my goal for this year. I have only shot 13 Production classifiers. I am getting closer to "A" but need some really good ones to move up It does help to stick to one pistol and one division for a while Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammowaster Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I know exactly what you are talking about I am in the process of looking at other guns but keep telling myself that I have so much to improve skill wise no to worry about the tool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGaultsGun Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Our local weekly club match had a lot of shooters show up last weekend (91 shooters). Only 14 were in Prod, 41 in Open, 25 in Limited. No GMs in Prod. 1 GM in Limited. 5 GMs in Open. So, I'm not sure if it's just a local thing. It's just the way it is. With only 49 GMs in Prod, that's less than 1 GM per state. Slim pickins' if you ask me compared to other divisions. It does make it more difficult to move up on Prod with no one to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 Maybe Sevigny has rasised the bar so high mere mortals just can't get close? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck223 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Production class tends to attract about 35-45% of the field in Ontario. The numbers of Production and Standard shooters seem to be about 75-80% of the match, with Open and Revolver filling the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 Holy crap! I just looked at Sevigny's classifiers... I've never seen anyone like that. I think he has only ONE production classifier below 90% in the last 4 years.... that's just sick! And 12 out of the last 16 were 100%... yikes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nashvillebill Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Why aren't there more Master level Production shooters? Because I have just recently started shooting some Production. Gimme a few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike4045 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Because I have been spinning my wheels in B class. The practice is paying off, my classifier scores are coming up. The overall match performance has really gotten better. I am hoping to make A in a few months. We have a few Master shooters in Production that I measure my performance against. I like to look at the overall and see how we come out against the open shooters. I got to see Sevigny to a few stages at Nats and he is pretty impressive. I also got to see Ben Stoeger shoot some stages at the Tx Open this yr. I think he came in top ten overall. It was a pretty impressive display. A few open shooters on his squad, couldn't how fast he was with a production gun. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskySig Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Maybe Sevigny has rasised the bar so high mere mortals just can't get close? Dave Sevigny's classifier scores don't really influence the percentages of any other Production shooter. His only influence comes at a major match when he wins and there are at least two other GMs that allow the match results to be counted towards classification percentage. There have been many BE Forum discussions about classifier high hit factors. What I've learned is that for Production division, the HHF is generally 95% of the Limited HHF for any particular classifier stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammowaster Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Maybe Sevigny has rasised the bar so high mere mortals just can't get close? Dave Sevigny's classifier scores don't really influence the percentages of any other Production shooter. His only influence comes at a major match when he wins and there are at least two other GMs that allow the match results to be counted towards classification percentage. There have been many BE Forum discussions about classifier high hit factors. What I've learned is that for Production division, the HHF is generally 95% of the Limited HHF for any particular classifier stage. So what does that mean? His scores are so high at a match that it makes the other production shooters artificially low? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskySig Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Maybe Sevigny has rasised the bar so high mere mortals just can't get close? Dave Sevigny's classifier scores don't really influence the percentages of any other Production shooter. His only influence comes at a major match when he wins and there are at least two other GMs that allow the match results to be counted towards classification percentage. There have been many BE Forum discussions about classifier high hit factors. What I've learned is that for Production division, the HHF is generally 95% of the Limited HHF for any particular classifier stage. So what does that mean? His scores are so high at a match that it makes the other production shooters artificially low? Take a look at the results for Production Division at the 2009 Area 3 match. There were four GMs there with Dave Sevigny winning the match. Not too many shooters were able to shoot within their current classification percentage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted September 1, 2009 Author Share Posted September 1, 2009 Take a look at the results for Production Division at the 2009 Area 3 match. There were four GMs there with Dave Sevigny winning the match. Not too many shooters were able to shoot within their current classification percentage. I guess I'm a little confused... doesn't the high classifier HF set the 100% for a given classifier which is the basis for all the classes in that division? If so wouldn't Sevigny's real high HFs make it "harder" for other shooters to classify in M, A, etc? Since their classifiers are based on the high GM's HF?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Sevigny ain't got nothing to do with it. (Even though he is a great shooter.) There are two ways to get a classification score. - Major match. On a Level III match, if the Match director requests it...and there are enough top level shooters in the particular division...and they shoot like top level shooters...then, USPSA may use the match finish as a classifier score. Most shooters in the match...those not REALLY close to winning it...will notice that their percentage will be a good bit below the percentage that they see on classifier stages. Many will blame that on the nature of the design of classifier stages, but really...it's more to do with math than anything. - Classifier stages. This is where most get their classification scores. The percentages here are based off the High Hit Factor (HHF) that is in the national database for any given classifier stage. What sets the HHF? When Production division first came around (not too long ago, really) there was no data to put into the system...as nobody had shoot the classifiers in Production division (since there had been no Production division). So, how would USPSA come up with HHF? The practical way to do so was to base the Production HHF's off of known data. They used the Limited division database and just made all the classifiers in Production equal to 95% of whatever the Limited HHF happened to be at the time. After data comes in...periodically...USPSA might take a look at the HHF's in the divisions. Based on the data, they can adjust what the HHF is. This is supposed to be an average of the top ten classifiers shot (not the highest raw score). Confusing? Then don't worry about it and just go out and shoot Alphas in an efficient manner! (If ya just gotta know...then hit the search page. we've talked this stuff to death over the years.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xfactor Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Number of Shooters In each Class Class Open Limited Ltd 10 Production Revolver GM 143 121 34 49 10 M 521 467 180 173 40 A 751 841 476 377 103 B 1521 2221 1133 989 251 C 1555 3291 2321 2084 512 D 455 1285 1064 1143 216 U 12386 9106 12124 12517 16200 There are a lot of points of interest to be found in these numbers... not the least of which is that there are more Revolver shooters in the Unclassified category than any other division... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted September 1, 2009 Author Share Posted September 1, 2009 (edited) Confusing? Then don't worry about it and just go out and shoot Alphas in an efficient manner! Nope- I get it.... awesome information- thanks. It does seem that picking 95% of Limited may have been a little agressive though, but I follow the logic. I'm working on the Alpha's trust me. This stuff helps fill the voids in between. Edited September 1, 2009 by lugnut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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