ICORE Div

[CRDB]

What do you guys think of the Retro Division as the 3rd division in ICORE.

I like the idea.

[ffl]

define retro??

[CRDB]

Was talking with somebody from ICORE the other day and it came up, Retro Division is for speedloader, six shot guns.

[Bones]

If you look at the IRC numbers, you'll see that you'll probably get more participation in an IDPA category (4" barrel max, 6 shot, at 125000 PF) than allowing longer barrel lengths. FFL - don't throw a hissy fit because I said "IDPA" - OK? I'll give you an FTDR if you do.

Remember everyone who shot "IDPA" at the IRC also shot "6 shooter", so you have to back out those numbers when comparing the populations.

Either way, I think speedloaders need recognition somehow. If it ends up as a longer barrel length, fine with me. You'll end up with a 6 shot anyway All the 7 and 8 shot loaders I've seen and used are trash cmapared to CompIIIs or Jet loaders.

I love ICORE!

Craig

Edited August 4, 2009 by Bones

[Bubber]

CRDB, Crunch some number to see how many particpants we are talking about. From the particpation at the local matches in my area we are looking at 15 to 20 total and some times less than 10. Now as a category it may be more doable as it will not take from the Limited division. Now if any Org (IDPA, USPSA, ICORE) would have a retro Match (speedloaders Only) I'd like to try it. I know that SSR is a speedloader division in IDPA. Correct me if I am wrong Bones. And at Hop's Charity match High Speedloader is planned to be recognized. Now as a ICORE member you can try to change the division with a rule change form. But you would have to get your data in order to set before the board and it would be an uphill struggle as we really lack the numbers for more divisions but stranger things are possible. Right now the Stats guy and a the Math Wiz (Actual name is the Pint King) are looking at overhauling the percentile floors for classes. Either way good luck later rdd

[ffl]

If you look at the IRC numbers, you'll see that you'll probably get more participation in an IDPA category (4" barrel max, 6 shot, at 125000 PF) than allowing longer barrel lengths. FFL - don't throw a hissy fit because I said "IDPA" - OK? I'll give you an FTDR if you do.

Remember everyone who shot "IDPA" at the IRC also shot "6 shooter", so you have to back out those numbers when comparing the populations.

Either way, I think speedloaders need recognition somehow. If it ends up as a longer barrel length, fine with me. You'll end up with a 6 shot anyway All the 7 and 8 shot loaders I've seen and used are trash cmapared to CompIIIs or Jet loaders.

I love ICORE!

Craig

your forgiven as Aaron did get his knife.

However, I know why you like ICORE. It's because you can drop your moons, youdon't have to find something to hid behind and you can actually look and point at the targets before you have to shoot at them.

[jmax]

I heard the Pint King screwed himself, could not change the data and will be moved up a class after the numbers were sliced and diced.

At Wheel Burners we have a Retro match each year where speed loaders, half and 1/3rd moon clips are required. Man on Man on my dueling tree can get very exciting with many reloads required resulting in loads of brass on the ground and sweat on the shooters brow. Loads of fun for all. I use my TR 44 spl w/HKS speed loaders and last year we shot F&N and I got all hits. We did extend the reload time limits at 10 & 3 yards though.

Edited August 7, 2009 by jmax

[LCARICH]

There is a change proposal send to the ICORE BOD for a Retro Division. Retro is defined as :

A. 6 shot gun

B. speed loader charged

A barrel length was not stated so many gun could be used with speed loader, i.e. a 625 shooting 45 auto rim and speed loader would be as would be a 41 mag, 44 special or 44 mag with speed loader.

Rich

[LCARICH]

There is a change proposal send to the ICORE BOD for a Retro Division. Retro is defined as :

A. 6 shot gun

B. speed loader charged

A barrel length was not stated so many gun could be used with speed loader, i.e. a 625 shooting 45 auto rim and speed loader would be as would be a 41 mag, 44 special or 44 mag with speed loader.

Rich

The BOD of ICORE would not vote on the Retro division tonight, so we still do not have a retro division. The Prez wants to rewrite the rule(which means that it won't happen).

Rich

[CRDB]

That Blows

[Revopop]

Damn shame. I would love to have something where my Model 14 and CompIIIs would be competitive.

[CRDB]

I think we should put it to a membership vote,

I beleave it would bring more shooters into ICORE, it does not take away from any other division it just gives us and new shooters to the sport another place to play.

Revopop, why is your Model 14 with CompIII's not competitive ?

I shot some classifiers last month with speedloaders (in ICORE I've only shot with speedloaders) , a little off but after a year off of shooting, times should improve in the next few months.

Regards,

DB

Edited September 16, 2009 by CRDB

[Revopop]

It's not that it isn't competitive, but in my hands, with speedloaders, I really can't compete against a shooter at the same skill level as me with moonclips.

[Bubber]

I think we should put it to a membership vote,

I beleave it would bring more shooters into ICORE, it does not take away from any other division it just gives us and new shooters to the sport another place to play.

Revopop, why is your Model 14 with CompIII's not competitive ?

I shot some classifiers last month with speedloaders (in ICORE I've only shot with speedloaders) , a little off but after a year off of shooting, times should improve in the next few months.

Regards,

DB

CRDB, At the risk of sounding, obnoxious, which by the way I am, let the process run its' course. If you feel that animate on the proposal, get in touch with your represenative, or any represenative, and explain your stand. As far as taking away from a division, if it is a division you are looking for it will divide the Limited division "IF" they are shooting speedloaders. Not trying to be confrontational, just trying to understand for myself. If one shoots all his classifiers with speedloaders the class you shoot will be competitive no matter what everyone else shoots. I may be a bit jaded as I have always just shot heads up, run whut Your Brung type of mentality I guess. Neither right nor wrong just different. Now don't get me wrong if there was a "Retro Division" only match I would shoot my L and K frames with speedloaders. But they are equipped with compensators and Optics. Been that way since the early to mid eighties. Well I have went on bout enough. good luck on your endevours. later rdd

[CRDB]

Hi Bubber,

I want ICORE to grow, that's all, retro division would pull people in from IDPA that shoot SSR. New shooters to the sport could run what they have, old 66, mod-10, GP-100 whatever, without the cost of cutting for moonclips, moonclips or a high dollar new gun. ICORE has other problems that need sorting but that is not for today.

Not looking for Retro only match, to add retro as a division would open up the sport to others, add one division not divide a division, look past the Status Quo (spell check) think of more shooters in the sport then they may also shoot limited, moonclip or not.

Look at what adding" production division" did for USPSA/IPSC.

ICORE has been around longer than IDPA yet only has 1000 active members, this is sad, I like shooting revolvers, I like a revolver only sport.

Everyone I talk to has a revolver, my goal is to get them shooting competition.

Regards,

Dean Brevit

ICORE NC1552

IDPA A06452

PS not picking a fight.

Edited September 16, 2009 by CRDB

[Gregg K]

What do you guys think of the Retro Division as the 3rd division in ICORE.

I like the idea.

I would shoot it if it was there. I have only shot 1 ICORE match but I did it "Retro" by choice and had fun with it. I would welcome anything that would grow the sport. I would shoot ICORE with or without a "retro" division but it may prompt others to participate if they thought that they could be competitive without a 7 or 8 shot moon gun.

[COF]

I shot my first ICORE match this summer in Michigan and loved it. It was great walking around and seeing everyone shoot a wheelgun! I shot my 4" 686 with speedloaders. Was I at a disadvantage? Yes, but more because it was my first time shooting ICORE and tombstone targets and I need to lose 50 lbs. While I think it might draw folks in, I don't think another division will be very beneficial to the organization

Jerry

IL2522

[CRDB]

GreggK, like you and COF most people that have shot an ICORE match had fun with it, Retro could get more people to try it.

COF, " it might draw more folks in" is the beneficial part.

Regards,

DB

PS I will shoot speedloaders Retro Division or not.

[Chris Christian]

Having a gun division where an IDPA SSR gun could be competitive might help draw shooters to ICORE. I'm not an ICORE member because there isn't a club shooting it within any reasonable distance for me. But I have shot it in the past with my SSR gun and had a lot of fun. I could support a Retro division and really wouldn't care what the barrel length rules were as long as it was an iron sight division.

Chris Christian IDPA SSR EX

[CRDB]

Having a gun division where an IDPA SSR gun could be competitive might help draw shooters to ICORE. I'm not an ICORE member because there isn't a club shooting it within any reasonable distance for me. But I have shot it in the past with my SSR gun and had a lot of fun. I could support a Retro division and really wouldn't care what the barrel length rules were as long as it was an iron sight division.

Chris Christian IDPA SSR EX

Chris,

Thank You.

Regards,

DB

[SR_]

As of now, I might be ICORE's newest member - the check is literally in the mail. I shot my first match last Sunday at the new club in NC.

Here are some thoughts-

> I've shot SSR and ESR in IDPA for more than a couple years and attended national and regional matches.

> I was interested in ICORE and looked into a number of times. I was willing to travel to a match, even though, at that time, there was no club within 1 hours.

> I found the equipment rule to be a barrier as follows:

*Rightly or wrongly, many of us think we are at a disadvantage when we use speedloaders against moon clips. This is a

barrier that kept me out of shooting revolver in IDPA (until they changed the divisions) and was a major factor in not

traveling to VA or other locations where there were clubs.

*Somewhere in the process I purchased a gun that runs moonclips. I still thought I was at a disadvantage because I did

not use it often (therefore not as comfortable as I'd like to be with reloads) and all my ammo makes 165k+ power

factor. So now I'm slow and have extra recoil.

I was shocked to see Dean's posting that there are only 1,000 active members. Is that correct? If it is, then some change seems to be in order.

I did look through the members for NC and VA. I was surprised to see the number of folks that shot one classifier than went inactive. Any idea why?

I realize that this is a volunteer organization and there are not 6 staff people that can be assigned to study the issue...... but changes should be considered.

My take -

IMO, Dean’s suggestion for a speedloader division make sense. Tie it into the guns used for IDPA - then folks feel they have the equipment they need and may check our ICORE and/or stay with ICORE.

IMO there are 2 reasons that people try a shooting sport and 3 reasons they come back. They try the sport if it fits into their schedule (time and distance being major factors) and if they feel they have the necessary equipment. The 3 reasons they come back - they enjoyed the people, the stage design was challenging & fun, they feel they have the right equipment and can be competitive.

Get folks in the door - more clubs and a 'retro' division would great steps.

My thoughts on defining 'Retro'-

6 shot (though I'm not sure I really care if there were more rounds)

speedloaders (that should be the main criteria)

Any barrel length (from a hog leg to a snubby - if it loads with a speedloader, bring it on)

[Chris Christian]

+1 to SR.... one key is clubs within a reasonable driving distance of the shooter. Second key is having a division where you don't have to go "space age" to compete. Six shot, speedloader... my IDPA gear? Would love it... would drive 1.5 hours to do it... and might attend Nationals, etc... I do it in IDPA. If you build it they will come.

The fact that ICORE only has 1,000 or so members tells me they haven't yet "built it". A six shot iron sight Retro Division sounds like something that might help build it.

Chris Christain

[Revopop]

Pretty much anybody who's got a revolver has a K or L frame with speedloaders. Unless you're buying it specifically to compete, the average revolver owner's first revolver probably didn't use moonclips. I think Chris has a point about speedloaders being perceived as slower than moonclips, (I know it is for me), and if you gave them their own separate division I think you'd see a lot more interest from new shooters, especially all of them that have "Dad's ol' .38" sitting in the back of the closet somewhere.

So Open and Limited could stay the same, just add "Limited Speedloader", same as Limited but with speedloaders and 6 shots only. I don't think limiting barrel length is going to be constructive.

[CRDB]

This is the point, give another place to play and people will play, bringing in more shooters to the sport, from the info I got, barrel length is not limited, as noted before (a few posts back) it is (if it gets a go) 6 shot gun using speedloaders to reload , thats it.

Regards,

DB

[Tom E]

I like the idea. One thing I'd add to the rules: Apppropriate ammo for the gun, "IDPAish" as much as I hate to say that but no short colt brass for 38's, no 44 russian for 44's etc.