Why No Pistol Data For Titewad?

[Carlos]

From what I can tell, this Hodgdon shotgun powder burns fast, on the order of N-310 or the old "Bullseye" powder. Both N310 and Bullseye are popular for pistol loading due to their soft recoil and, for N310, cleanliness & low SD. Titewad powder seems to have a flatened ball shape like Titgroup or 231 or HP38. Yet, there is no handgun data for this shotgun powder, unlike Hodgdon's other shotgun powders incl. all of the Clays line. Here is what Hodgdon's website (as of 10/30/03) had to say about Titewad:

TITEWAD™ Through advanced technology, Hodgdon Powder Co. has produced a superior flattened spherical shotgun powder. Unlike spherical propellants in the past, TITEWAD features low charge weights, mild muzzle report, minimum recoil and reduced residue for optimum ballistic performance. This outstanding propellant designed for 12 gauge only, meters superbly and is ideal for 7/8, 1 and 1 1/8 ounce loads. As the name implies, "a little goes a long way!" Available in 14 oz., 4 lb. & 8 lb. containers.

Does this stuff have any use in cal.s like .45, or possibly 9mm minor? Being a fan of fast, clean, powders (like N310), I'd like to know if there is a low cost US alternative we seem to be missing.

[gm iprod]

I reckon you are right, but, I have spoken with JB Hodgdon on this exact issue and he advised me that all the testing they did indicated that accuracy was more likely to come with Titegroup not Titewad in handguns. It is a little slower that Titewad (TW listed at faster than Red Dot and Clays but slower than slightly Norma R1). It is in fact only 1 away from N310 on the burn rate chart I have.

The impression I got from some of the people at Hodgdon and JB was that Titewad was calibrated to work in the larger volumes and lower pressures associated with shotgun target loads (10,000-12,000 PSI) and Titegroup was able to work with low load density and higher pressures associated with handguns (eg. 40S&W 180gr at about 25,000PSI).

I use Titegroup in my NRA Action Pistol loads 38Super and get slightly better accuracy with it than the Titewad, when I make about 130-140pf, which makes the pistol run better. But in my lighter Service and Stock pistol loads I use Titewad as it produces far less recoil. My 38Special loads using 147gr Flat Nose lead and 3.0 grains TW = 121 pf, and handles like a hot 22lr load. Next to no muzzle report, and very clean burning. More importantly it groups around the 2.5-2.6" at 50y out of my very Stock 686. When I use wadcutters it is even better (1.75" 12rounds 50yards off sandbags) but I can barely make PF.

A customer of mine uses TW for ISU centrefire in 32S&W Long and it performs the same as N310. It fills the cases quite well and leaves very little residue. You only get 14oz to a can but you use very little in a load. Anything that you want to use light loads in, this powder used carefully will work fine. I am going to try it with 185gr Lead SWC in 45ACP for Service and seeing as we use 125pf I expect it to work well. I would also expect it to work reasonably well in 9mm for light loads. I am prudent with a fast powder in 9mm, it always causes me a little concern when the cases get a little full. It is significantly faster than 231 and that is considered by many to be as fast as you should go in the 9mm.

I have a steel load pending for one of my 38Supers and I will try TW in that with a 108gr JHP. I will report back.

[Carlos]

Excellent reply! Just what I was looking for. I have been warming up to N310 & the only drawback so far has been cost & availability; maybe TW is the answer. While I am using N310 in Minor PF 9mm w/ 147s right now, I know that V V would not approve of my minor load & I might try to go a bit lighter in bullet weight this winter - maybe the Zero 135 or even 124s; this would move me more in the direction of an approved 9mm N310 load (V V only lists N310 loads for 9mm w/ 90 grain bullets. If Titewad would provide the same super-soft recoil AND consistent performance as N310 (which is VERY consistent in my 9mm) maybe I have stumbled on 9mm Production Nirvana. Please report back on your TW testing & thanks again.

[joerocket]

I went to the store yesterday and was lucky to get 8lbs of Titegroup. When I got home I saw it was Titewad! Arghhh. I don't think the store will take it back even though it is still sealed. There is very little info on Titewad in this forum but for this post.

I did see another post on another site and Hodgdon does have a load on their website. It is for 124 gr bullets. I have a ton of 115gr. I am going to try return the powder but thought I would post the info I found.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol?&CartridgeName=9mm+Luger&OrderBW%5B%5D=124&Manufacturer%5B%5D=Hodgdon&Powder%5B%5D=Titewad

[rustybayonet]

Sounds like my ventures into red dot territory. There is a lot of old data using red dot for handgun rounds, but not much info in the newer load data.

[RudyVey]

I use Titewad for 38 spl exclusively with both ACME coated and Extreme plated 158 gr bullet (3 grains of Titewad) and have it used for 9 mm with 124 gr bullets - extremely soft!

[BFG9000]

Titewad works great for .45ACP and even .40

13 years since the OP, Hodgdon now lists loads for 9mm, 38 Super and .45ACP.

From the charge weights, Titewad is much faster than N310 and at such low charge weights in small cases, slight variations have a much larger effect so rather than just increasing SD, things can get so downright touchy that -0.1gr can result in FTF and +0.1gr can produce signs of overpressure. Pressure can get silly very quickly so work up a load very gradually only to slightly past PF (or better yet, only to functioning for plinking)--if you can't find accuracy by then, just give up and start over with a different bullet. If you are lucky enough to find an accurate, functional and safely reproducible load then it is very soft and very cheap!

I'm not really concerned about the lack of load data as it just means I have to treat it like surplus powder and start working up from lower than if there was any. Load data isn't a recipe after all (just a guide) because so many variables can affect what's the safe maximum--keep an eye on that brass and it'll tell you what you need to know!

[JD45]

If almost bet that either Titewad or Tightgroup is the old Winchester Super Light. I need to look at some old data.