Weak Hand String (IDPA) Need Help

[ctkenc]

I am absolutely terrible at "Weak Hand" strings ... even at just 5 yards.

I'd probably do better, or at least just as well, if I just "hip shot" with my left hand w/o even looking at the sights.

Out of 10 rounds (9mm) I may get one dead center in the bullseye and the rest sprayed all over within an 12-18" radius.

Next IDPA Match is in 10 days and I'd really like some help with things to practice, besides just pouring a ton of rounds downrange. without a specific plan that seems just expensive and not very productive or efficient.

This particular stage has us shoot 6 rounds at 20 yards freehand and I'm OK with that, another 6 rounds at 10 yards "Strong hand Only".... I'm not so good at that either; then the last 6 rounds at 5 yards, "Weak Hand Only" .

I'll surely lose a lot here unless I can make some real improvement between now and then.

Thanks,

Ken

[nashvillebill]

Here's what works for me:

Square the shoulders to the target.

Keep the elbow of the shooting arm bent.

Other arm tucked tight to the chest.

Hard tension in the arm, soft tension in the hand.

Let the gun cant to the inside if it's more comfortable.

Wait for the sights, it will be slower with weak hand, but they will get there.

[Steve J]

Do you have access to a range? Slow fire for the tightest groups possible. It takes training to learn to hold the sights steady and isolate the trigger finger. If you squeeze with any other part of the hand in slow fire, it throws the shot off. Work weak hand and strong hand. You should be able to keep all your hits on a 5" shoot-n-see target at 15 yards, preferably at 25 in slow fire.

That's where you start, then add sessions with IDPA targets out to 15 yards, but now under the timer. Practice breaking your shots as quickly as you see a good sight picture without jerking or pulling the shot.

The slow fire trains the fundamentals of marksmanship and teaches you what you are capable of. The strong hand and weak hand only drill under the timer on practical targets teaches you visual patience and trigger control under stress.

You can't get to your goal of shooting SHO & WHO in matches without both steps IMHO.

[ctkenc]

Yes, I have access ... I belong to a Club near my home and will be there in the morning practicing this, and, the "half homey" approach with the gun canted inwards (WH).

Thanks,

Ken

[jkrispies]

Let the gun cant to the inside if it's more comfortable.

+1

If you stand and point your index finger forward (as in Uncle Sam saying, "I want you!"), you'll notice that your hand isn't exactly straight up and down. Now hold your gun in only your weak (or strong) hand using this same natural pose with your index finger pointing at the target. You shouldn't be tilting it "homey style," but rather at a slight cant that simply feels like a natural pointing of the trigger finger at the target. I'm inclined to say that the degree of cant should be determined by the comfort of your shoulder socket more than anything else.

The minus side to this stance is that the gun will buck diagonally in recoil, which makes a second shot on paper more time consuming, but you'll probably find your accuracy improving.

[ctkenc]

Thanks krispie,

that is a super clear and easy to understand explanation ... I'll do just that in the morning.

Does one use an Isocoles stance or a Weaver like stance when using this technique to the max?

And, what is best to do with the "Non Shooting Hand" ... place it in the center of your chest, or behind your back?

Ken

[pjb45]

I actually do pretty well with weak hand shooting. But I practice the heck out of it, mostly using a .22

I am right handed but use my left eye, so most of the above does not work for me. I pretty hold the gun upright with no cant. I watched some GM do weak hand. One guy kept his arm straight and tuck his chin down. Others would do a bit of a bend. I keep my straight but do not lock the elbows.

Isolate the weak hand. Most snug it to the chest. The reason I do the chest part is, I transfer the gun in front somewhere between nipple and shoulder height. I really look at the transfer. Then as I extend my weak hand, I just move the right hand to my chest. My shoulders are still square to the target. Some people when the move their arm to the side or in back, twist their shoulders somewhat. I try to keep mine square to the target.

Taran told me to aim at the left edge of the A zone, most shooters push the shot anyway. Brian's comment about feeling what the trigger does as it releases was a big help. After a thousand rounds of .22, I really started paying attention to the trigger and front sight. Visual patience really paid off, rather than jerking the trigger because I had a good sight picture, if my picture changed, I just waited until it was the picture I wanted. I did not settle for an almost good sight picture.

I also think that with so many rounds down range, shooting weak hand was not stressful. I just knew I would do ok and I wasn't sweating making any shots. That confidence also helped.

[jkrispies]

Does one use an Isocoles stance or a Weaver like stance when using this technique to the max?

I should let a better shooter than me answer that one, but I'd say that it comes down to personal preference, as well as an analysis of the task in front of you.

I think your everyday plinker and/or bullseye shooter would simply tell you to blade your body to the target. This will give you good stability, particularly if you have to make multiple shots. If you're faced with a classifier where you're doing all your shots from a static position (ie, an unobstructed box), then this might be the way to go.

Personally, I almost always just do my standard isoscoles minus one leg of the triangle; I've chosen this route because a good part of what we do is time based and involving multiple firing positions and possibly moving while firing at the same time. Frankly, I find that I can get into my "one-legged isoscoles" faster and more naturally from the draw than if I have to carefully position my body into a bladed stance, which is in fact an unnatural position for me. If I'm shooting on the move or going from one static firing position to another static position, I'm simply going to get to where I need to shoot and pull the trigger when the sights are on target as fast as I can, and if I happen to be in an isoscoles, Weaver, or bladed body position... well, so be it!

Basically, it all depends on the situation of the moment, methinks.

[jkrispies]

And, what is best to do with the "Non Shooting Hand" ... place it in the center of your chest, or behind your back?

Oh, yeah-- this question! Just keep it behind the front sight. Seriously, though, it's best to keep it against your body somewhere so that it's not flopping around and getting you off balance. I keep it to my chest, as that won't interfere with my ability to start moving to another position, as opposed to hooking it around behind my back. (I mention this last point as some Bullseye shooters would tell you to secure your hand in your pocket-- that's because they don't have to run anywhere other than the bathroom!)

[Duane Thomas]

There are two theories on how to hold the gun while shooting one-hand only. This first is to cant the gun inward, i.e. if shooting right hand only have a leftward cant and vice versa to "align the bones and muscles for better recoil control." Most of the really good shooters, by contrast, in my experience will tell you to keep the gun straight up-and-down with, as much as possible, the elbow oriented toward the ground rather than toward the outside; thus the gun will tend to recoil much as it does when firing from a two-hand grip, straight up-and-down, with much more consistent sight tracking.

After considerable experimentation, I've found I shoot best with a cant but a VERY slight cant.

There are also two theories on how much to bend the arm. Either flex it slightly or lock it out.

I've found that, for me, it works much better to lock out.

Whichever hand I'm not using gets placed flat on the center of my chest.

However those techniques are just what works for ME. You need to find what works for YOU.

One thing I find does help immensely, and I'll say this is the way to go for everyone, in the LHO/RHO arena is, as with a standard draw, to get the gun up in front of your face as soon as possible so you can see the sights and be aligning them while the gun is still moving out toward the target. Prep the trigger also while the gun is still moving toward the target so that at the end, when it comes time to fire the gun, there's very little left to do, just a slight increase in pressure on the trigger to fire the gun.

I'm not convinced the "go out to the range and practice X" advice is the way to go, frankly. And absolutely no offense meant to anyone who gave that advice. You need to work on your technique in dry fire, extensively, before you practice it with live ammo. All live fire at this point is going to cause is frustration and reinforcement of bad habits. Any time you contemplate a change in your technique - I'm not going to say invariably but certainly mostly - it's always going to come back to extensive dry fire practice first.

Don't try to overanalyze what you're doing. Just do it. Your subconscious mind is a lot smarter than your conscious mind. Just put the gun out there, right hand only, left hand only, watch the sights, squeeze the trigger. Do it again. And again. And again. Day after way, week after week. Dry fire, dry fire, dry fire. What you're going to find, to start, is the gun doesn't come up aligned, when you do get the sights aligned they wobble all over the place, the trigger pull jerks the sights. Do it some more. In short order you're going to find the gun coming to rest with the sights aligned, the wobble zone is considerablly less and doesn't change when you drop the hammer. Obviously you're doing something different. Probably a whole lot of things different. Does it matter what those things are, or that you know what they are? Or does it only matter that what you're doing now works? Accept that what you're now doing works and drive on.

[ctkenc]

Thanks Duane,

i think there is an awful lot of merit to your thoughts and advise on the matter and I WILL do the dry Fire practice... with the current price of ammunition it all the more effective, not that it wasn't alreedy great advise.

Thanks

Ken

[Duane Thomas]

Yer welcome.

[MemphisMechanic]

Dryfire isn't a horrible idea.

Your off-hand trigger finger is 'dumb' ... for lack of a better word. You have the same problems shooting with that hand that you did when you tried to write with it.

Personally, I think it's mostly a mindset issue. You expect to have gorrible eaccuracy, so you ACCEPT horrible accuracy. To miss at 5 yards nearly requires you to look at the side of the slide as the sight breaks. There's no way the post is anywhere near the center of the notch. So why are you breaking that shot? You'd never accept that kind of nose-diving when shooting freestyle. Why should weak-hand be any different?

Keeps the sights aligned as you pull the trigger, doofus.

Edited July 23, 2009 by MemphisMechanic

[jkrispies]

Personally, I think it's mostly a mindset issue. You expect to have gorrible eaccuracy, so you ACCEPT horrible accuracy.

I totally agree with this... well, I'm not so sure about the "gorrible eaccuracy" part, but the rest is good.

It's funny, but when I was doing tactical competitions, I'd generally smoke everybody on the weakhand stuff, and they'd all voice some sort of disbelief at what I'd done. I'd just shrug it off and think, "All I did was shoot it like I'd shoot anything else, just weird handed."

[Pittbug]

Unless you're one in a million, your body is not symmetrical. Your shoulder joints will be set differently, the muscle around each will be different, as a result of being left or right handed. So the way you hold the gun in one hand may not work in the other. Go to the range and do some slow fire strong side only, then support side only. Experiment with slightly different arm positions and rotations. Also experiment with standing square on to the target, blading in and various positions in between. Don't worry about where the hits are right now, but be conscious of how the gun feels during recoil, how consistent the recoil feels in the various positions and how your grip feels.

Once you find a position that feels right, dry fire using that same position concentrating now on sight alignment and trigger control.

[ctkenc]

Practiced much of what all of you have advised, including dry fire. Have not had enough time to do a lot of practice but did what the time allowed.

Just back from the range with a huge smile on my face .... it worked. The "Uncle Sam" grip and the "Half Homey" approach really helped.

My results were incredible compared to the depressing experiences of the past ..... now to keep practicing. just these changes alone will let me compete with confidence .... at least I won't "stink up the joint".

Thanks one and all.

Ken

[Duane Thomas]

The Enosverse Group Mind comes through again.

[nashvillebill]

Outstanding! I would estimate 90 -95% of my shooting education has been from this forum. Nearly every evening I am lurking, searching and reading for the past 2 years or so. An incredible resource at your fingertips, I value it immensely.