Need some educatin'

[cripple]

We are loading for a .40 and have run into a particular issue that we need HELP with. We are using brass collected from the range and inspecting it for length, usage, cracks, etc. The brass is in great shape, but we are having an apparent resizing issue that seems to be causing the gun (Edge) to not go into battery at times. Here is the situation in pictures!

Here is a factory Atlanta Arms and Ammo .40

and here is our reloaded ammo. 180 MG FMJ reloaded in a Dillon 550

as you can easily see the reloaded ammo isnt dropping into the barrel. Should this take a little force to go in or should it drop in just as the factory does?

Thanks in advance!

[Catfish]

it should just drop in. Looks like you could have the glock "bulge"... are you using a full length resizing die?

A lot of folks, myself included, use the Lee factory crimp die in the last station to get rid of the glock bulge.

[Jman]

Yes it should drop in freely. Looks like little or no resizing. Make sure you resizer is "kissing" the shell holder. Also check your crimp. You want it at ~.421 or so.

Jim

[cripple]

Yes it should drop in freely. Looks like little or no resizing. Make sure you resizer is "kissing" the shell holder. Also check your crimp. You want it at ~.421 or so.

Jim

How do we adjust the crimp? We are using Lee dies.

[Jman]

Back out your crimp die all the way. Insert a factory round in the shellholder and run it all the way up. Hold it there. Screw the crimp die down until it makes FIRM contact with the loaded round. No more than finger tight. This will get you close. Chamber check it.

Jim

Edited July 12, 2009 by JimmyM

[cripple]

ok we seem to be getting somewhere, but we are not to the point where the ammo is dropping in just yet. I need to make a correction to my above post. These are the dies were are using:

REDDING #1 EXP R7

REDDING FL05

REDDING ST07

We can re-size the brass and it will drop in just as it should, but all that changes as soon as we charge it and seat the bullet. We are loading to 1.2 COAL.

Any ideas?

[MemphisMechanic]

Lee Factory-Crimp die in the final station.

Lots of guys call it a band-aid to hide other problems. I call it money damn well spent. It works.

Edited July 19, 2009 by MemphisMechanic

[h2osport]

Lee Factory-Crimp die in the final station.

Lots of guys call it a band-aid to hide other problems. I call it money damn well spent. It works.

+1

I would also make sure you are not belling the case too much. If you are belling it too much, your crimp might not be closing enough of it.

Randy

[cripple]

Im assuming the issue is associated with the REDDING die being a seating and crimping die combined. I say this because when we tried adjusting the amount of crimp we changed to COAL at the same time.

[h2osport]

You might have to adjust the height of the die in the holder for crimp, and adjust the knob on top of the die for seating depth. I do not know how the reddings work, but I am thinking that the crimp is built into the die body, and the whole die would have to be moved up and down to adjust crimp. The knob on the top of the die will only affect length. Leave a round long(bullet high) then adjust the die body until you get the crimp you want. After you have the crimp set, lock the die down and then adjust for desired length.

Hope this helps

Randy

Edited July 19, 2009 by h2osport

[cripple]

That makes perfect sense...off to giver it a try..

[cripple]

working good so far. We've got the OAL adjusted and there is a crimp now where the brass was a little higher last time so I think we are heading in the right direction.

Thanks everyone.

[G-ManBart]

Who's "we" and have you read the instructions for your Redding dies?

I'm not saying this to be rude, but it sounds like you're very new to reloading. If that's the case you may want to take a step or two back, really figure out what's going on, read the directions provided with the equipment and start over. If you're running into problems this soon it means you've missed a step somewhere, and that's not good.

Edit to add: Last I knew the AA&A .40 long was shorter than what you're trying to load, and is a different profile bullet. It's possible that the chamber in your gun wasn't perfectly throated and the somewhat unusual profile of the MG 180gr FMJ could be causing problems at the longer length. Make sure there are no marks on the bullet after you drop one in the chamber and pull it out. R,

Edited July 19, 2009 by G-ManBart

[cripple]

Who's "we"

WE is myself and my teenage son. We are new to reloading (that's why I posted in the beginner section) and have read and re-read the instructions quite thoroughly. That is why we are now on the site asking questions...

As I said earlier it seems to be working fine now...

Thanks for info on the barrel throating. We'll keep an eye out for that.

Edited July 19, 2009 by cripple

[G-ManBart]

Who's "we"

WE is myself and my teenage son. We are new to reloading (that's why I posted in the beginner section) and have read and re-read the instructions quite thoroughly. That is why we are now on the site asking questions...

As I said earlier it seems to be working fine now...

Thanks for info on the barrel throating. We'll keep an eye out for that.

Gotcha...glad to hear it seems to be working now

My reason for the question is that jumping into reloading and going straight to something like .40 long isn't exactly the easiest first step since it really isn't on the charts of what's published. If the resizing and/or crimp isn't right you can get setback pretty easily and that combined with the fast powders you'll read about people using here can lead to bad things.

Essentially, a lot of the load info you see here hasn't been tested and documented by powder/bullet companies so there are a lot of unknowns....fast powders, bullets on the heavy side for the cartridge, OAL's closer to 10mm than anything else, etc, etc. It's a pretty oddball combination when you add it all together. Most of the time it works out pretty well, but there have been a few "oopsies" over the years and nobody here wants that to happen to anybody! R,

[cripple]

We shot the new loads tonight and had some unexpected outcomes:

The gun (STI Edge) constantly had issues with the reloads, but ran the shorter Atlanta Arms and Ammo just fine. The reloaded ammo would go almost into full battery then the slide would stop at about .25" from being fully closed. All of the reloads were chamber checked so we know they fit easily into the barrel??? I got about 5 shots off and the same thing would happen again. Clear and repeat.

The reloaded ammo also had a few bullets that were tumbling when they hit the target. I am not sure what caused this. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Here is the load data:

180 Zero FMJ (We switched from the MG because of the angled neck. We had the same issues with the MG though)

4.8 grs. TG @ 1.2 OAL w .421 crimp

CCI Small Pistol

Thoroughly cleaned and polished brass

Gun

STI Edge .40

Factory mags with Grahams springs and followers

[GrumpyOne]

Lee Factory-Crimp die in the final station.

Lots of guys call it a band-aid to hide other problems. I call it money damn well spent. It works.

+1

I would also make sure you are not belling the case too much. If you are belling it too much, your crimp might not be closing enough of it.

Randy

+1 to Randy. It might be that you are belling it too much after the re-sizing, putting another bulge in the case, albeit a small one. On the ones that manage to go into battery and fire, are you seeing any over pressure signs? Could it be that the bullet is actually touching the lands of the rifling?

Edited to add comments

Edited July 20, 2009 by GrumpyOne

[prodfastc]

Like to add a thumbs up to h2osport answered question I was looking at I'v been using a 2in1 on my father in-law's press and thought I was missing how to adjust the crimp (He failed to teach me everything)

[Youngeyes]

Two thoughts. If you are now overcrimping it can cause tumbling. Also if your load is light it may not cycle properly and return to battery. Chrono and recheck loads and make sure of consistant loading(OAL,weight,crimp etc) on the press. Be carefull until you've got a reproducible and consistant load.

[lcs]

Two things: Shorten the OAL to 1.190 and test.

To check your crimp---After you load and crimp a round---Use a bullet puller and look at the bullet. If you have a heavy indented ring around the bullet your crimp is to tight.

Not all barrels like 1.200 long of a loaded round. The slide stopping 1/4 inch short is a great indication the bullet is seated to long.

[Waterfowl-widowmaker]

The bullets tumbling sounds like you have too much crimp now. The easiest way I have found to check to see if the bullet is too long is remove the barrel as in your pics. Seat a bullet in an empty piece of brass, (no powder) then strike a match and hold it just away from the bullet to smoke it up. Hold it above the chamber and carefully drop it in, trying not to let it hit the sides of the chamber. Take your finger and push against it to make sure it's all the way in, then dump it out and check to see if any of the black smut has any signs of it touching the lands of the barrel. If it does just seat it about .005 deeper and repeat till it comes out just as black as it went in. Hope this helps.

[Rick45Colt]

I have had similar problems and started using case gauges. I have a mixture of Dillon and LE Wilson for all the calibers that I load. Once I started using the gauges to set up my dies my problems went away. I continue to use a gauge to double check that my setup has not changed while loading.