.40 major load

[kimmie]

Hi - new to reloading 40 S&W - I searched here and on the Hodgdon site but couldn't find exactly what I was looking for. I know 40 can be finicky and sensitive so I want to start off right. I've been reloading .45 for about a year now so I know the basics.

With powder so hard to get and Titegroup, which seems to be the powder of choice, on backorder, I want to use what I have, if possible, to make major pf. I'm shooting a 5" SVI limited. I have Bullseye, Winchester 231 and Clays on hand. I don't think I want to use the Clays. I have MG 180 grain fmj bullets. I set up the press to load to 1.125 OAL and the crimp is .420. I've found data for 'xtp' (don't know what those are) and hp in the 180. None of the 180 fmj has data for Bullseye or Winchester 231. Can I use the same data for hp with my fmj bullets?

Any suggestions greatly appreciated!

Donna

[UW Mitch]

I've always treated jacketed/plated in the same category and interchangeable - at least for a starting point. I've never worked with Bullseye or Win 231 though. Look through Henning's forum - I think he uses Clays in his 40 load.

~Mitch

[Flexmoney]

1.125...while the book standard...is likely too short.

You SV will feed better at a longer OAL

Plus, a longer OAL will mean less case pressure...which might be important, with you powder choices.

40 is quite a bit less forgiving than 45.

Clays if often "too fast". Be very careful (not really a "new to the cartridge" kind of powder).

231...also fast...is reported to be OAL sensitive (so be sure to load long and check that you OAL doesn't shrink on you)

BE is fast too?

When I started loading 40...I went with a slow (safe) powder.

[kimmie]

Thanks guys - maybe I'll just have to wait for the Tightgroup to come in. And use what I have for 'minor' loads for practice. I've also been told to try WSF or Power Pistol. I see they're both slower powders.

Donna

[jmaass]

You can find some load ideas on the ".40 S&W IPSC Loads List" at:

IPSC Loads Lists

[Mark K]

Load out to 1.23 OAL

165 JHP

N340 6.90gr

180 Grain Zero JHP

N340 6.10gr

231 5.30gr

Titegroup 4.70gr

Power Pistol 6.50gr

Solo 1000 5.40gr

200 TCFM Zero

N340 5.50GR

Clays 4.30gr 173PF

Solo 1000 4.60gr

N320 4.80gr

Mark K

[HSMITH]

Titegroup will spike pressure very much the same as Clays, the difference is it is at a higher power factor for the length of the load when it does. Don't believe it is 'safe' because it is not, it just gives a bit more leeway than Clays. It is more tolerant of small errors but with a large error it will blow your gun up. All of the guns I have seen blow up over the last couple years were with TiteGroup.

I agree with the others that a longer load will probably be better, 1.18-1.23 is a good range to work in. MAKE SURE you are not going to have set back of the bullet under any conditions, that is the most dangerous aspect of loading 40.

[Flexmoney]

There is probably threads on here for WST...WSF...HS6...PowerPistol

I can't speak to all of those. So, hit that search page.

[CocoBolo]

I shoot STI Edge with Montana Gold 180gr Bullets in 40, but prefer Zero in jacketed bullets, they take .1gr less to push at the same speed.

I am a C class shooter but this load is also used by two Grand Masters that I know here locally, for their names PM me.

OAL is 1.190 powder is Winchester WST at 5.1 or 5.2 gr depending on Chrono results. Federal Small Pistol Primers other primers also work well. I use a good crimp so they fall in the SAMMI gauge. At this length they will only go down to the groove before the rim. If you think the round might be fat put it in backwards and check it as well they are rimless so it will go in. WST is about $111.00 for 8 lbs and that will load 12,000 rounds, or enough bullets for 6 months if you shoot as much as I do.

TiteGroup is a little dirty for my taste and it is reverse temp sensative yes when it is cold it gets hot. I only use TiteGroup with 200gr Jacketed bullets. Hot weather load is 4.3 gr at 1.190.

I prefer the Precison Moly coated bullets at 185gr with 4.8gr of WST loaded once again to 1.190.

231 is a popular powder for limited, it is old school, as I call it but again they carry it in an ice chest to the match.

[kimmie]

All good stuff - I knew this was the place to learn - but I have to say I'm a little nervous now. I will definately err on the side of caution and probably use my reloads for practice for the time being and not try to make major until I do some testing and chrono-ing with the lighter loads.

Donna

[buddy_fuentes]

I would suggest that you make sure that you have a long leade chamber before going too long with your loads. I have one STI that likes everything up to 1.20 and maybe more, but one has a short chamber and 1.135 is pretty much it, if a blunt bullet profile is used.

I have use Bullseye and WW 231 and they work in the forty, but there are too many powders that work better. I like VV N-320 and am currently using E-3. The E-3 is a very clean burning powder and easy to find. Sometimes the N-320 is difficult to locate and that is the reason I started with the E-3. So far I have shot about six to seven thousand rounds (over 3 pounds) with the E-3 and have no complaints.

Buddy

[dbltapipsc]

major 180 grain load 5" gun

OAL 1.180

4.7g titegroup/or 4.9 of N320

major 165 load

OAL 1.180

5.3g N320

[Harmon]

4.5 grains 231 at 1.135 oal should be a good start load for a 5 inch gun. make 167 pf in my Kart Barreled STI and 170 pf in my glock 22 open gun (5.1 inch barrel) this is with precision delta FMJ bullets and Federal 100 primers.

loading them longer to 1.200 inches and you need 5.0 grains of 231 to get major.

the same length and you need 4.5 grains of clays for 166 pf, be very careful with clays. I have had one round blow a primer but it was crappy brass. nevertheless, its never happened with other powders.

I have shot just about every powder made in my 40 cal guns. loaded long in the STI, I like clays. for major Open gun work, 7625 or Power Pistol. For glock limited gun loads(short oal) i like 231.

tried N320 and its performance does not justify the extreme price.

i have tested a lot and none were more accurate than the 231 loads.

Harmon

[kimmie]

4.5 grains 231 at 1.135 oal should be a good start load for a 5 inch gun. make 167 pf in my Kart Barreled STI and 170 pf in my glock 22 open gun (5.1 inch barrel) this is with precision delta FMJ bullets and Federal 100 primers.

loading them longer to 1.200 inches and you need 5.0 grains of 231 to get major.

the same length and you need 4.5 grains of clays for 166 pf, be very careful with clays. I have had one round blow a primer but it was crappy brass. nevertheless, its never happened with other powders.

I have shot just about every powder made in my 40 cal guns. loaded long in the STI, I like clays. for major Open gun work, 7625 or Power Pistol. For glock limited gun loads(short oal) i like 231.

tried N320 and its performance does not justify the extreme price.

i have tested a lot and none were more accurate than the 231 loads.

Harmon

Thanks - is this with a 180gr bullet? I'm going to try this load since I have a lot of 231. I've readjusted my press to seat to 1.130. And I am using small rifle primers. I will chrono it with my gun.

Curious though, and I know the books are all different, but the only manual I can find a 180gr bullet using 231 is the Lyman manual and they say 5.0 grains will give you 927fps with a max load of 5.6 at 1015fps. And that's seated short to 1.115oal. Shouldn't I need more, seated to 1.135? Why the big difference? I need 920fps with a 180 bullet to make major, yes?

But I like the idea of starting lower (4.5 as you recommend) and working up. Just trying to understand how this all works

Donna

[fltbed]

Thanks - is this with a 180gr bullet? I'm going to try this load since I have a lot of 231. I've readjusted my press to seat to 1.130. And I am using small rifle primers. I will chrono it with my gun.

Curious though, and I know the books are all different, but the only manual I can find a 180gr bullet using 231 is the Lyman manual and they say 5.0 grains will give you 927fps with a max load of 5.6 at 1015fps. And that's seated short to 1.115oal. Shouldn't I need more, seated to 1.135? Why the big difference? I need 920fps with a 180 bullet to make major, yes?

But I like the idea of starting lower (4.5 as you recommend) and working up. Just trying to understand how this all works

Donna

I started loading 40 with 231 years ago for a BHP. This is from my load notes from 1997. (Back then the power factor was 175 and we were all loading for 180 PF).

180 gr. Fmj (unknown mfg. maybe Winchester?)

5.0 gr. 231

Case: Win. once fired

Primer: Win.

OAL: 1.130

Vel: 930 f.p.s.

PF: 167

Notes: Defiantly a max load Primers slightly flattened, three slightly cratered.

180 gr. Fmj (again, I didn’t write down the manufacturer, maybe Winchester)

5.2 gr. 231

Case: Win. once fired

Primer: Win

OAL: 1.130

Velocity: 980

PF: 176

Notes: TO HOT! Primers very flat, firing pin indents inverted, one blown primer, head stamp lettering starting to wash out.

A good rule of thumb is to cross check your load data from various sources and work up your load accordingly.

Hope this helps.

Jeff

[CocoBolo]

WST and 231 are very similar. Information on WST is virutall non existant in Reloading Manuals and even on the Hodgdon reloading data. I do have a very old loading manual that lists all the reloading data for WST. In general the max load and start load is -.1 grain for WST. So .1 grain less is a equivalent load to 231. Performance wise they seem to be very similar and they are both temp sensative with WST becoming inconsistent at higher temps. You should also Chron after buying powder from a differnt lot number as it does vary from lot to lot.

As a general rule you start at less and work up checking for excessive pressure.

When I chrono I always do the PF calcualtion with each load before I shoot the next hotter load, if I hit the desired PF then I stop no need to chrono excessively hot loads.

I have loaded WST in 40 with 180gr down to 3.8 gr for steel matches and it runs my Edge just fine, and shoots softer than my Browning Buckmark 22.

[Justsomeguy]

I would suggest that you make sure that you have a long leade chamber before going too long with your loads. I have one STI that likes everything up to 1.20 and maybe more, but one has a short chamber and 1.135 is pretty much it, if a blunt bullet profile is used.

I have use Bullseye and WW 231 and they work in the forty, but there are too many powders that work better. I like VV N-320 and am currently using E-3. The E-3 is a very clean burning powder and easy to find. Sometimes the N-320 is difficult to locate and that is the reason I started with the E-3. So far I have shot about six to seven thousand rounds (over 3 pounds) with the E-3 and have no complaints.

Buddy

E-3 sounds interesting. It would be helpful if you could share a few pet loads with us to give a starting point for this powder in 40S&W. I have been looking for another powder to use with lead bullets that will not smoke up the range. If you have something please let us know.

[Pezco]

Donna,

I shoot a 5" SV in Limited and found the following to be a consistent & accurate load everywhere I shoot including SE and Midwest U.S.

1.22 OAL

5.3 gr. VV N320

Montana Gold FMJ or JHP 180 gr

I did notice a difference in seating the JHP compared to the FMJ. The fit was tighter and I had to dial my die down.

I hope this helps!