any app for the iPhone for scoring

[Jim Norman]

We have been using StageScore for a couple years now. You don't have to take my word on this or believe me, but electronic scoring is the best way to run a match.

No trying to interpret the RO's scrawl, no missed targets, no missed times. the system won't allow you to close out a score unless it is complete.

There is a bit more upfront work for stats, but the scores can usually be posted within an hour of reaching a hot spot. That is also possible with paper if make that a big IF you have a dedicated stats crew that can enter scores as they are brought in from the pits. most local matches do not have this luxury.

Are Palms the way to go? Yes and No. They are out there NOW, they are not overly expensive. Will they be replaced? Certainly. we no longer write with a quill, we use a retractable roller ball pen with gel ink.

Yes there is a learning curve, but except for the person actually loading the Palms it is not very steep. Got a problem, come see the stats guy.

From my point of view, electronic scoring is the way to go. With what Rob indicated regarding a new version of EZ that will import the registrations that will reduce the work load by a large margin.

[cvasilion]

I have ROed and CROed lots of matches major and local. I run a local match that averages over 60 shooters. Some time up to 90. And most of the time there is just two of us running the match from start to finish. If it wasn't for the palm scoring I wouldn't still be doing it. It's way to much paper work on a local level. It would take me up to 2 hours to input all the scores and then upload the results hoping I didn't put something in wrong. With the palm scoring I can have the results posted before the last stage is torn down.

There is a learning curve don't get me wrong and as for a major match you need to have at least one if not two people on a stage that know the palm scoring. I have found that most of the people that like the palm scoring are the ones that run the matches and help alot. The one that seam to realy dislike the palms are the ones that show up shoot and leave. We have been using StageScore for 4 years now and I won't go back.

As for using Iphones or smart phones it would be nice but there is a huge expence in buying them. Even the Ipod is to expencive right now. If the shooters brought there own phones you would always have at least one persone forget to charge the phone up the night before and have it go dead.

[J-Hon]

Interesting discussion.

My 9-5 has been as a mobile developer for a couple years now, and coming up with new solutions for gun games problems has kept me awake at night scribbling more than a couple times.

The idea of a better way to deal with match scoring is a specific one, and I've made up several storyboards trying to hash out a work flow before abandoning various ideas.

Here's my thoughts:

The app isn't really the problem. Scoring is more/less data entry, and that's a known route. Registration/administration would also be fairly trivial to add in many cases, as that's also a known problem (user registration) with knowns solutions.

Two things that I always get particularly hung up on:

First is device cost. Until recently, iOS/Android devices have frankly been expensive. Now the old Palms are about dirt cheap, and it would probably be hard to top that. It does seem though that prices of previous generation devices are getting somewhat cheap. Witness pricing of older iPod Touches, which can be had sub $100. There are also several Android phones (and even some tablets) that can be had in that pricee-range (Woot just had Cruze Android tablets for like $60 - they suck in general, but would probably be great for something like this). How many clubs do you think would honestly have the budget to spring for one or more devices? MD's, is $2-250 worth of devices viable to you?

Second is connection issues. This is really my biggest hangup. Most places I shoot (I live in KY, to be fair) don't have wifi; some places I'm lucky to even have a weak edge connection. Now you can certainly store information on the device and lazy load it when you have a connection, but that can get tricky fast (though that would be a software development problem, not necessarily a "your problem"). Plugging in a device to a computer seems like a hinky solution at best. Not being able to communicate from a centralized data source of sorts could be a show stopper.

The idea I've been kicking around lately, is sort of along the current trend of Bring Your Own Device. Something along the lines of devices running an app that were "vetted" by a mothership centralized portion of sorts (controlled by the MD), basically meaning they were allowed to be official scorekeepers. This would maybe give you more freedom in terms of devices, the standby being a web app that would run on anything with a browser (be aware though, that web apps get exponentially slower as data speed drops). Connection issues could be resolved by these devices simply storing scores and uploading them to the "mothership" upon having a signal. Once uploaded, the scores would be aggregated into a complete match score.

Now I think that could work (it would be somewhat expensive to develop, as I see two native pieces, plus a web client, plus a centralized web backend), but It would mean some coordination on everyone up front. Mainly, I could see the need for a sync before the match starts (to authorize "RO" devices, as well as syncing the registration list and match outline), and again after the match (to push the data from the devices to the "mothership").

Benefits (I would hope) would be a more streamlined scoring setup, with the ability to accomodate more RO's/Devices than other systems, as well as all the benefits of having instant (well, near instant) match administration, less scoring errors, and super fast scoring sent to the public.

I realize that might be a little techy, and probably more than many care to sift through. For those who do/did, anyone have any thoughts/comments? Would such a system seem viable for your club/location?

[ziebart]

Disclaimer I'm not a Programmer or network admin.

My home range has intermittent cell data and I think that is going to pretty standard. I would not develop an app depending on WAN access.

I think an authorization pin system would be required to utilize personal devices. Local match fees go to the range and only a small portion come back to the club for target repair which is really needed.

Apparently ezwin score is the only program authorized by uspsa. So if you could write an app that could record the scores then generate a output file in a formate ezwin score could use I think it could be a step forward. Each squad could do all their scores then email the output file to the score keeper or push it over Bluetooth and then let them combine the files and publish them. Yes it's not as easy/nice as a totally integrated solution and it relies on Internet if Bluetooth wouldn't work. Also you are trusting that people will email the scores as soon as they hit service. If someone forgets results could be delayed longer than the current solution.

Lots of problems and the palms currently work but eventually they will die and you won't be able to buy them on eBay for $20. It would be nice if we had a faster score system than paper when that happens. Live scoring is something I would be willing to contribute $$ or hardware to my club for.

[Rob Boudrie]

. To my knowledge, none of the them integrate into EzWinScore. That's a deal breaker for me, because I'm a USPSA shooter.

The Utah Initiative is already scoring their local matches with the Iphone and feeding data into EzWinScore. Their program will eventually be released, and is expected to obtain USPSA approval.

The program is real. I have seen it.