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any app for the iPhone for scoring


ironb

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Actually, new 4th gen 16g ipod touch: $199. Older ones probably a lot less. (Yep, just looked on ebay, many 3rd gen 8gb's for less than $100). And more people are likely to already have these as not. Hell, we had a well-worn one found and turned in at the nationals last year. Cracked screen, but it was still ticking!

Edited by wgnoyes
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Yes, brand new ipod touch is much cheaper than iphone at approx 150 and doesn't require phone contract. As palms become more and more out of date we will have to make this switch someday. Used palms are certainly cheap but used ipod touch is getting cheaper as time goes by too.

Eric

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If they make a nice app for a smart phone - it shouldn't be written to a specific platform. This is the perfect place where a web app makes more sense (for match scoring). So all updates go to a server vs to the local device. Since most can do WiFi - you might need a repeater for a range.. or just store and forward when it gets in range

Then Android, iPhone, etc.. can all use the same web page to do scores.. This does negate using them in standalone mode..

For me to write a iPhone app.. I have to not only buy the iPhone, but a Mac as well.. and I'd never do that.

Almost any current platform can write a decent web app. Run it on Apache, and some free Unix variant, with MySQL (or equiv) - the server would cost less that the smart device..

ok -juts my 2cents

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I have an Iphone as my main cell phone. An older 1st gen that still works fine and will be replacing my phone Im using now with a new Iphone soon. So Im covered for my club lol. Has anyone tried DAA's software?

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If they make a nice app for a smart phone - it shouldn't be written to a specific platform. This is the perfect place where a web app makes more sense (for match scoring). So all updates go to a server vs to the local device. Since most can do WiFi - you might need a repeater for a range.. or just store and forward when it gets in range

Then Android, iPhone, etc.. can all use the same web page to do scores.. This does negate using them in standalone mode..

For me to write a iPhone app.. I have to not only buy the iPhone, but a Mac as well.. and I'd never do that.

Almost any current platform can write a decent web app. Run it on Apache, and some free Unix variant, with MySQL (or equiv) - the server would cost less that the smart device..

ok -juts my 2cents

I really think you might be onto something here.

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Can't trust that you'll have a internet connection at the range.

Nope.. I'd have a range server there instead... with local WiFi.

Any sort of multiple device scoring system is going to need something to sync to.. and yes some clubs won't be able to do it.. but I'm only suggesting this as an alternative to the palm device to server model..

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  • 6 months later...

I was just doing some old thread surfing -- I have used IPScore for several months now. It is really good in my opinion and very useful in our situation - ie a non-USPSA affiliated club that shoots matches similar to USPSA. This is my club. I find the software easy to use, fast and accurate. I have the scores done and emailed to reicipients often before we leave range and usually within a few hours. I highly recommend it. I believe I read somewhere, Saul describe the software as designed for our exact use. There are some issues with it that for our purposes are minor --a. I would not recommend for large shoots for obvious reasons. b. data entry is mildly tedious but this is more about the iphone then the software. c. It is mobile only. There is no PC/Mac mainframe equivalent. This last item would be the best upgrade -- give an actual piece of computer software that I can as well as the mobile.

I have done entire matches with it -- and actually scored with it real time. This was very tedious and added a lot of time to score. Paper is still probably the best way to get data at the shoot and then enter it into IPScore later for score crunching.

I doubt there will ever be a winscore interface. I think AA is very cognizant of competition with Ezwinscore and does not want to offer a replacement. (if I am wrong about this please correct me)

Anyway that is my experience with the IPScore product. Not for everyone, but very useful for outlaw clubs like mine.

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I have noticed the iPhone 4S Siri commercials on TV. There is a short clip of the gal just waking up in the morning asking her iPhone what her day will be like....then the little boy asking if school is going to be called off that day because of snow.

http://www.youtube.com/apple

then it struck me.

that would be great if there was an app that turned the RO's/scorekeeper's calling out "TWO ALPHA!" "ALPHA, CHARLIE!" into a running scoresheet.

The scorekeeper wouldn't even have to touch the screen.

and then at the end of scoring a stage, the Siri could ask something like, "Did the shooter earn 135 points out of a possible 160?" Then the scorekeeper can respond with "Yes." Then the Siri asks "Was the shooter's time ten point one seven seconds?" The scorekeeper responds with "Yes". Then the Siri says, "The shooter's hit factor is thirteen point two seven four three, would you like me to save shooter's score?"

Scorekeeper responds with "Yes".

Then after the match all the squads's iphone 4S Siri's synch up with a computer, and it goes to EZWinScore.

SUUWWHHEEETT!!!

If somebody made little WiFi printers that could run off of batteries and could be at every stage to print out a receipt of a shooter's score at a major match....SWEET! :cheers:

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There is a team in Utah developing an Iphone/Itough and Droid scoring program, and is already using the Iphone version to score matches. I've been working with the developers, and it's a pretty impressive piece of work.

On a semi-related matter, we are about to release an EzWinScore update with the first version of registration import from an external data source (CSV or TSV files).

I am also working with another vendor who is integrating their electronic scoring system with EzWinScore.

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I actually got to see the iPhone program out of Utah at a match in Vegas once almost a year ago. It is cool and if I remember right they said if you within range of the squad score it could push your scores/hit factor to your phone along with everyone who has already shot that stage. I'm not a huge apple fan boy but the palm score is not the easiest to use. Many people already have iPhones better yet a tablet as the numbers would be even bigger which is always a plus. In many areas the club would not need to purchase new equip, as out of a squad there is bound to be one member with a phone they could use.

I like the idea of using more modern equipment that more people have experience with. Not only that but there are many cool things that could be done with this.

Their website

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You can have all the electronic doodads you want, You still have to have a piece of paper. All the palm pilot stuff does is push work from a stats shed out onto the stages. Where an RO who has way better things to do than mess with gadgets has to deal with it.

I am reasonably tech savy and I have RO'd quite a few majors. I wont be doing any more palm pilot ro'ing. There is realy no better option than a simple two piece carbon copy score sheet and pen. Score keeper sees it, Shooter gets an instant copy, notes can be wrote off to the side if needed, score can be scratched out and changed if needed.

Palms may speed up stats, but at the multiplied expense of slowing down the stages. Misakes can be made and there are hand writing issues but the shooter is supposed to look at the score before he initials. If the hand writing is too sloppy to read I would make the RO fix it before I initialed. Carbon copy paper sheets are a simple process, work well, everyone understands them. Using tech for the sake of tech when there is no improvement in the process makes no sense.

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You can have all the electronic doodads you want, You still have to have a piece of paper.

The rules allow for completely paperless scoring at local (level I) matches and a couple of clubs in my area are using this with great success.

It should be possible for one of the new generation programs to support capture of initials (no, it's not practical to teach 200+ people to enter a personal password at each stage) to sign an electronic scoresheet. Naturally, this would require a tweak to the rules. In order for me to support such an electronic capturing of initials, the system would need to be designed so that NOBODY could change a score after it was signed without erasing the initials from the electronic record.

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You can have all the electronic doodads you want, You still have to have a piece of paper. All the palm pilot stuff does is push work from a stats shed out onto the stages. Where an RO who has way better things to do than mess with gadgets has to deal with it.

I am reasonably tech savy and I have RO'd quite a few majors. I wont be doing any more palm pilot ro'ing. There is realy no better option than a simple two piece carbon copy score sheet and pen. Score keeper sees it, Shooter gets an instant copy, notes can be wrote off to the side if needed, score can be scratched out and changed if needed.

Palms may speed up stats, but at the multiplied expense of slowing down the stages. Misakes can be made and there are hand writing issues but the shooter is supposed to look at the score before he initials. If the hand writing is too sloppy to read I would make the RO fix it before I initialed. Carbon copy paper sheets are a simple process, work well, everyone understands them. Using tech for the sake of tech when there is no improvement in the process makes no sense.

+1 (actually +1,000) :)

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How well does an iPhone or iPad handle wet weather?

Pretty well in a decent case or even (I just tried this and it works) a simple zip-lock plastic bag.

An iPad is probably physically too large for this sort of application, though there are cases that feature a strap on the back through which you slip your hand.

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I can see where some would be worried about electronics in the rain, but paper gets wet too. Unless you are using the write in the rain notepads it becomes difficult to use wet paper, but at least you won't ruin an expensive device.

The iPad may be too big but when our club uses paper scoring it uses standard 8.5x11 paper on a clipboard and I think that is about the same size as an iPad. Personal preference would apply.

Also when we use paper score sheets there is no carbon copy. So if I want to see how they marked me then I have to bother the scorekeeper/RO who is just trying to keep the match moving. With an app that could push the scores to peoples phones it would be easier to ensure you have the correct score without holding things up.

I think the original point of palms or an app is to speed up the stats process. Instead of hand copying the info from the score sheets what if there was a program that could take scanned or photographs of a score sheet and turned them into a usable computer file. It might speed things up. I only shoot level 1 matches right now so I don't have experience with how area matches go. I think everyone can say having scores faster makes it more enjoyable. I know the stats guys work as fast as they can, but it is just not possible to keep a running standings list with the paper score system.

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You can have all the electronic doodads you want, You still have to have a piece of paper. All the palm pilot stuff does is push work from a stats shed out onto the stages. Where an RO who has way better things to do than mess with gadgets has to deal with it.

I am reasonably tech savy and I have RO'd quite a few majors. I wont be doing any more palm pilot ro'ing. There is realy no better option than a simple two piece carbon copy score sheet and pen. Score keeper sees it, Shooter gets an instant copy, notes can be wrote off to the side if needed, score can be scratched out and changed if needed.

Palms may speed up stats, but at the multiplied expense of slowing down the stages. Misakes can be made and there are hand writing issues but the shooter is supposed to look at the score before he initials. If the hand writing is too sloppy to read I would make the RO fix it before I initialed. Carbon copy paper sheets are a simple process, work well, everyone understands them. Using tech for the sake of tech when there is no improvement in the process makes no sense.

Short Sighted.

Any on-stage device actually contributes to scoring accuracy. You must enter the time; it can't be beyond acceptable limits without a warning. You must enter the correct number of hits per target. The error checking performed on the stage results in correct scores, and far, far less reshoots due to incorrect scoresheets. It puts the reponsibility of accurately recording scores directly where it should be: on the RO and the scorekeeper. It does not slow down anything on the stage; that is well proven. What it does is eliminate manual data entry of a scoresheet per stage, per shooter. The possibility of mistakes there is overwhelming.

The workload of entering paper scoresheets into EzWin is astromomical. Check the matches using electronic input. Finals up 10 minutes after last shot fired. Who wants to sit around for Hours?

What neither paper not PDA can overcome is an incorrect time being recorded, or 2 A's as opposed to 2 C's being recorded.

Nevertheless, to make an assumption that paper is somehow better than electronic scoring is, well, short sighted.

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How do palms eliminate manual data imput ? All they do is move the manual imputting from a stats shed where someone has a large keyboard, large screen, usually climate and probably temp controlled, environment with optimum lighting to see the screen Out to the stage RO. SOmeone still has to manually imput the scores, then try to see a LCD screen in the sunlight, then the shooter has to try to see it, AND YOU STILL NEED PAPER, per current rule, at Level II and III,

There is no "proof" that it doesnt slow down stages when I have seen with my own eyes that it does. You just dont have the flexibility,,,

"2 A's 2 A's AC AC 2'As" "oh wait a minute that last target before was 2 A's,,,,," 2 A's Ac,

scoreer,,, hold on wait gotta back up now what ? hod on wrong screen,,,, Wait dont paste yet,

sorry but tried it gave it a fair shot and no way its better than a simple carbon copy score sheet. Once I am off the stage I'll be more than happy to go sit in the AC and help key in scores.

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How do palms eliminate manual data imput ? All they do is move the manual imputting from a stats shed where someone has a large keyboard, large screen, usually climate and probably temp controlled, environment with optimum lighting to see the screen Out to the stage RO. SOmeone still has to manually imput the scores, then try to see a LCD screen in the sunlight, then the shooter has to try to see it, AND YOU STILL NEED PAPER, per current rule, at Level II and III,

There is no "proof" that it doesnt slow down stages when I have seen with my own eyes that it does. You just dont have the flexibility,,,

"2 A's 2 A's AC AC 2'As" "oh wait a minute that last target before was 2 A's,,,,," 2 A's Ac,

scoreer,,, hold on wait gotta back up now what ? hod on wrong screen,,,, Wait dont paste yet,

sorry but tried it gave it a fair shot and no way its better than a simple carbon copy score sheet. Once I am off the stage I'll be more than happy to go sit in the AC and help key in scores.

There are no scoresheets to transcribe into EzWin. I suspect you have no clue about the process. Your thingie about 2 A's 2 A's AC AC 2'As" "oh wait a minute that last target before was 2 A's,,,,," 2 A's Ac,

scoreer,,, hold on wait gotta back up now what ? hod on wrong screen,,,, is just plain nonsense. You have obviously never used the software. I've seen 7 year olds comprehend it far better than your limited imagination.

The fact that many matches have been run without any slow down, and with improved accuracy, and with less manpower speaks for itself. You simply have not tried the 21st century.

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You can have all the electronic doodads you want, You still have to have a piece of paper. All the palm pilot stuff does is push work from a stats shed out onto the stages. Where an RO who has way better things to do than mess with gadgets has to deal with it.

I am reasonably tech savy and I have RO'd quite a few majors. I wont be doing any more palm pilot ro'ing. There is realy no better option than a simple two piece carbon copy score sheet and pen. Score keeper sees it, Shooter gets an instant copy, notes can be wrote off to the side if needed, score can be scratched out and changed if needed.

Palms may speed up stats, but at the multiplied expense of slowing down the stages. Misakes can be made and there are hand writing issues but the shooter is supposed to look at the score before he initials. If the hand writing is too sloppy to read I would make the RO fix it before I initialed. Carbon copy paper sheets are a simple process, work well, everyone understands them. Using tech for the sake of tech when there is no improvement in the process makes no sense.

-1000 :mellow:

Having been involved in countless matches over the years, from locals to Areas/majors, and from all 3 angles (competitor, RO and stats shack) I would have to wholeheartedly disagree. Paper scoring can't even come close to the efficiency and accuracy that you gain by using electronic scoring. Yes the Palms are an outdated platform, but they work very well and you just can't beat the price point. I am looking forward to having a choice in platforms, whether it is android or apple, and I'm very excited to see that the new EZWin version supports a more generic import - that will open this up to even more possibilities.

Here in the D/FW area we have been using Palm scoring at local matches for several years. I believe the key is in the training - a quick YouTube search will lead you to several videos on how to use the palms - pretty much anyone who can use a cell phone can use the Palms with just a little bit of effort. The shooters in this area are now spoiled by not having to deal with paper on the range, and by having final scores available within a few minutes of the last shot fired. At almost every match I hear someone else stepping up and saying "hey, can you show me how to use that Palm thing?", which means the kool-aid is really tasty :roflol: We have also done several major matches in this area using Palm scoring, and even with having to record a summary of each shooter on paper it is far superior than all paper. I'm sorry your experience so far hasn't been a good one - but I'm happy to say that you're probably going to have to get over that aversion, as it looks like electronic scoring is here to stay (woo hoo!!). I'd be happy to give you a personal tutorial if you're so inclined, just say the word!

Rhonda

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I think we're getting a little of topic here. The OP wanted to know about a app for the iPhone, of which I don't have any direct knowledge. Every time I hear of something like that, I try to investigate. To my knowledge, none of the them integrate into EzWinScore. That's a deal breaker for me, because I'm a USPSA shooter.

I got excited (briefly), when I initially heard about the DAA and CED timer/scoring device. When I learned there was no tie in to EzWin, it became a non starter. If you're an IPSC club, it sounds fantastic, as it ties into their scoring system.

Now I'll wade in the paper vs. palm debate. I've done it both ways, paper and palm. My home club is completing its THIRD full season with palms. Are they antiques, yes. Are they sometimes slow, yes. Will a tropical rainstorm destroy an unprotected one, yes. Will we ever use paper scoring at another local match, NEVER. There is no going back. The accuracy and time saving benefits far outweigh the negatives. Let's talk about major matches. I personally pushed both the VA/MD Section Championship and Area 8 Championship into electronic scoring this year. As the stats officer for both them this year, and the VA/MD stats officer for the two years prior to that, in my opinion I can't believe other major matches haven't switched. We typically have the daily results up on the USPSA website before the staff makes it back to the hotel or the shooters are in their driveways. I can also speak for the stats shack of the Mid Atlantic Section championship for the past two years, also done on palms. Electronic scoring wins, hands down. One of our concerns was slowing down the stage reset times. It turned out to be a non issue.

If someone wants to start a new thread or have a discussion via PM, I'd be up for it.

Rob

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We just started using Stage Score for our local matches, and we couldn't be more pleased. The palms are still very available on ebay(and CHEAP -- $20 each), and the system is so simply that most of our shooters were able to enter scores without any training. Even the guys who were opposed are now singing the praises. It's SO much easier than paper.

Phones may take over someday, but for now the palms are the way to go.

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