.308 Small Base Sizing Die

[David Sinko]

I need to get a small base sizing die to load proper ammo for my SOCOM 16. I have already sized and trimmed about 700 cases using an ordinary RCBS die and now I'll need to resize them again using a small base die! Since they have already been trimmed, I'm presuming I can just spray them with lube again and then reload them in true progressive fashion on the 550B without worrying about having to trim them again. Whose is the best die for this? Are there any special tricks with the Dillon die or does the RCBS work just the same? I have noticed that some of my RCBS dies need to be screwed down pretty deep to work in the 550B and I don't know how compatible their small base sizer would be. My SOCOM is the first rifle that I've owned that really needs a small base sizer to function properly and I'm trying to go about this the right way.

Dave Sinko

[uscbigdawg]

Dillon and you'll only size it once.

Rich

[Dan Sierpina]

If you have a single stage press, size them in that. I found the 550 to flex too much for .308 size cases.

[David Sinko]

I went with the RCBS Small Base Sizing Die and I'm still not satisfied. It's a huge improvement but the gun still does not run 100% like it did with surplus ammo. I do not want a rifle that will not function perfectly with my handloads, heavily utilized brass and all. I realize that my handloads are not perfect, but there are plenty of manually operated rifles that DO function with my ammo. The SOCOM will be sold or traded.

Dave Sinko

[norbs007]

I size my brass with an RCBS Small Base on a Rock Chucker and they feed well in my M1A. Redding Comp Seating and Taper Crimp for semi-auto, FL and no crimp for the bolt gun.

[kgunz11]

I went with the RCBS Small Base Sizing Die and I'm still not satisfied. It's a huge improvement but the gun still does not run 100% like it did with surplus ammo. I do not want a rifle that will not function perfectly with my handloads, heavily utilized brass and all. I realize that my handloads are not perfect, but there are plenty of manually operated rifles that DO function with my ammo. The SOCOM will be sold or traded.

Dave Sinko

David are you sure your having body problems and not shoulder problems? I have often found that if you don't bump the shoulder back enough the rounds will be hard to chamber, especially if the chamber is cut more to match specs.

[David Sinko]

I am using Remington and Federal brass that has been reloaded two times already. I screwed the small base sizer die down as far as I can so that it bottoms out as much as possible when there is a case in the shellholder and I can't get it down any farther. I figure that the case is being resized as much as possible and that the shoulder is being set back as much as possible. The resized empty cases seem to fit freely into the chamber. I acknowledge that the Federal brass is rather soft and maybe it's at the end of its service life when used in an auto, but I can get many more loadings out of it in my lever action. I was wondering if there's a problem with the gas system, but the factory loaded ammo I have shot through it (Austrian surplus) functions just fine. This is the first time I can not figure out why my ammo will not function in my firearm and it's a very disconcerting feeling. What's really frustrating is that the gun feeds everything I put into the magazine without fail, but ejection is problematic. Given the escalating cost of factory ammo and components, I just don't want to keep playing around with it anymore.

Dave Sinko

[kgunz11]

David, what kind of ejection problems are you having?

[pbcaster45]

I use a Forster NM die for all my M1A loads. All sized cases are checked for a minimum of .003 headspace clearance (my chamber measures 1.631) with a Stoney Point Headspace Gage. Any that don't make it are given a second pass through a Redding .308 Winchester Body Die. The Body Die does not touch the neck but it does push the shoulder back. The Stoney Point does not correlate exactly to a headspace gage - this is what it will read.

Stoney Point Reading/Headspace Gage

1.615/1.628

1.616/1.629

1.617/1.630

1.618/1.631

1.619/1.632

[rvb]

I was wondering if there's a problem with the gas system, but the factory loaded ammo I have shot through it (Austrian surplus) functions just fine. ... What's really frustrating is that the gun feeds everything I put into the magazine without fail, but ejection is problematic.

So it feeds everything ok, but doesn't eject your reloads?

Could still be a gas problem, but due to your load. Perhaps post more data (powder type and amount, especially).

I'm not an M1A expert (other than I can tell you how long mine's been on order! ), but others might be able to tell you if your load is good.

As for the sizing, are you at least using a case gauge?

-rvb

Edited April 1, 2009 by rvb

[Garrett]

As for the sizing, are you at least using a case gauge?

Is the gauge going to pick up all problems?

I had some similar issues loading .223. I had thought it was related to not sizing the cases far enough, even though I was using a small base die.

I later figured that the problem related to a slight shoulder bulge from over-crimping.

The rounds would feed, fire, and cycle just fine. But I had a difficult time manually removing them from the chamber. The rounds would all pass my Dillon .223 chamber gauge, but would fit tight in five different guns.

Maybe I have an out of spec gauge. Or maybe the Dillons are on the loose end of tolerance. None of the guns have a "match" chamber though, so they should have fed / removed the ammo easily. One was a Mini-14, one was a Norinco 84-S (.223 AK clone), and the rest were AR15s. Two with Bushmaster chrome-lined barrels, and one using a surplus M16 upper / barrel.

[rvb]

As for the sizing, are you at least using a case gauge?

Is the gauge going to pick up all problems?

of course not. but it might rule out some.

[David Sinko]

I don't crimp when I load rifle ammo but I remember having installed the powder bar activator upside down in the die of the 550 and when I had it set too low it would bottom out and bulge the shoulders. This happened with the .223 and I caught the problem immediately and was able to correct it. I am not bulging with .308 as far as I can tell.

I am going to buy a pound of IMR 4895 and shoot some 150 gr. bullets through this rifle. If this doesn't work, I may have a good gunsmith take a look at the chamber (too tight?) and gas system. I'll probably get rid of it and buy a short bolt action, but I really want to know why my loads don't work in it.

Dave Sinko

[Dan Sierpina]

Dave,

What is your load? If your brass is only twice fired it should still eject it. Does your gas piston move back and forth with the bolt locked back, and you slowly raise and lower the muzzle? Is your op rod greased?

[David Sinko]

I have used jacketed bullets ranging in weights from 90 grs. to 165 grs. and also 150 gr. cast bullets. I will look up exact charge weights and post later. I had planned on buying a pound of IMR 4895 (which I hear is the best powder for the M14/M1A plaform) but the closest local retailer was selling it for $27.99 a pound! I'm not THAT desperate, at least not yet.

I don't know where this will lead me, but it has already cost me a local Multigun match later this month. I had planned on shooting Heavy Metal but I can not do it with a rifle that won't cycle properly. Both entry fees and component costs are high and Heavy Metal would be my strongest division. I'm kind of bummed out because Heavy Metal doesn't get much support (only one shooter signed up for it so far) and I'd like to contribute. I'll be lucky if I can get squared away for the Area 8, which would be a local match for me.

My brother has offered to trade me a new unfired DPMS LR308 for the SOCOM. I played around with his other LR308 and it cycled my handloads perfectly and was much more accurate than My SOCOM. Good brother that I am, I'm reluctant to pass off a rifle that just might have "issues." I need to really think about this.

Dave Sinko

[uscbigdawg]

I love my LR308. You won't go wrong with it. If your bro is aware of the issues and still wants it, game on!

Rich

[David Sinko]

I took the SB sizing die out of the 550 and put it in my single stage press. I didn't like the flexing in the 550. I screwed it as far down as it can possibly go in the Lee press until it absolutely bottoms out when there is a case in the shellholder. My problem might finally be solved. It looks like the cases are now chambering properly. I can push a sized case all the way into the chamber and pull it back out with my fingernails. Before it had always been a tight fit and sometimes they didn't want to readily come out. Apparently I had not been sizing my cases properly and the tight fit caused some serious extraction problems. I also dropped my powder charges by a half a grain and the test rounds that I fired all cycled properly. Hopefully I am on the right path now.

I was starting to wonder if the chamber was too tight in my SOCOM. Then my brother loaned me that brand new LR308 and told me to shoot it and see if I like it. To my amazement, NONE of the cases that had been sized with the ordinary RCBS FL sizing die would fit into the chamber! He provided some of his ammo that he had loaded using Lee dies, and they all chambered properly. Apparently nothing can be taken for granted. I assumed that since I had no trouble loading for the .223 with ordinary sizing dies, I'd also have smooth sailing with the .308. Not so!

If I have conquered my demons with the SOCOM, I'd like to keep that rifle. The LR308 is still unfired and will certainly be worth more in that condition.

Dave Sinko

[Tom D.]

When I first started loading for my M1A, I sized my cases as you are by screwing the die body down to the shell holder & had sporadic failures to extract, too. The problem was OVERsizing. As a previous poster stated, set the shoulder back .003". If you don't hava gauge for this, get one NOW. I use the RCBS.