Flexmoney Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Then you probably haven't thought of putting said drill in a vice and using a zip tie, 550 cord ...or whatever...to hold the trigger down so that you can use both hands to dress the material. Treat it like running with scissors. Make sure nothing is loose (shirt sleeve) of dangling and can get caught in the action. (In other words...don't blame me if you do something stupid. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Knight Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Hmmm.. I never have a major problem installing sights. it is always when I remove the old one I have to break out the steel punch. Anyone that has removed XD sights can verify that one. Properly fitted sights need brass for installation but S&W hydraulicly presses those in and they need extra special beating to get out. My M&P9 needed about 2 hours of oil soaking and an hour in the freezer before beating it until the sight finally broke loose. Some are just tougher than other I supose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cy Soto Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 (In other words...don't blame me if you do something stupid. ) Ha, ha... Deal!! I have another question... What is achieved by putting the slide in the freezer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm52 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Not to get into molecular physics, but metal shrinks when cooled as the molecules are binding more closely together. Since the sight is smaller in mass compared to the slide, it will 'shrink' more quickly and reduce microscopically more than the slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cy Soto Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 That makes sense. Thanks for the quick response! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 G-Man Bart- Hate to tell you, but I think you are going to be disappointed with the MGW M&P sight tool. I bought one from Brownells and it works fine for the rear sight but won't do the front sight on five inch guns. The recoil spring tunnel on the five inch guns' slide is too long to let the tool reach the front sight. It also looks like it would push on the sight blade instead of the dovetail. I bought mine a couple of months ago, so there's always the chance they've changed it to work with the five inch guns. Let us know when you get it. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted March 27, 2009 Author Share Posted March 27, 2009 G-Man Bart-Hate to tell you, but I think you are going to be disappointed with the MGW M&P sight tool. I bought one from Brownells and it works fine for the rear sight but won't do the front sight on five inch guns. The recoil spring tunnel on the five inch guns' slide is too long to let the tool reach the front sight. It also looks like it would push on the sight blade instead of the dovetail. I bought mine a couple of months ago, so there's always the chance they've changed it to work with the five inch guns. Let us know when you get it. Jim D'oh....not what I wanted to hear. Folks on the M&P forum were saying it worked nicely on front sights. I half wondered whether that meant the 5" guns as well. I still figure it's going to take some large, heavy object and a bad attitude to get the old one out at this point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 FWIW, I took a 3/8ths steel punch and ground it square on three sides to fit the front sight dovetail and then tapped the front sight out with a 14oz ball peen hammer. It moves a lot better with a steel punch. My aluminum and brass punches just deformed trying to get it started. YMMV. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted March 28, 2009 Author Share Posted March 28, 2009 FWIW, I took a 3/8ths steel punch and ground it square on three sides to fit the front sight dovetail and then tapped the front sight out with a 14oz ball peen hammer. It moves a lot better with a steel punch. My aluminum and brass punches just deformed trying to get it started. YMMV. Jim Well, I've given it quite a few whacks with a steel punch and a mini-sledge, but it's not moving. I'm soaking it in penetrating oil now and I'll cold soak it for an hour or two as well. I actually wondered about using heat since the slide is bigger it should expand more....just an idea at this point. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Knight Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 Before using heat I would try some canned air turned upside down to get the liquid to freeze the front sight. I used that trick on my XD front sight and it actually worked!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted March 28, 2009 Author Share Posted March 28, 2009 Before using heat I would try some canned air turned upside down to get the liquid to freeze the front sight. I used that trick on my XD front sight and it actually worked!! Good idea...I'm still going to put it in the freezer for an hour or two, but a shot of compressed air isn't a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSteel Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 (edited) You may want to leave longer in the freezer... I left mine several hours. As far as the heat goes, your going to cause the metal to expand not contract. However, if the sight is set with loctite it may then loosen when cooled. Be careful and don't use to much heat, temper change could result... Oh, and the FO rod will go Bye Bye......... Edited March 28, 2009 by NoSteel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan45kim Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 That’s not right Flex you stole my drill lathe method, works pretty good if you take you’re time. If you are having that much trouble with the front sight just cut it out. Take you’re dremel and a cut off wheel and cut right through the middle of the sight just like you are trying to make a line through the center of the dovetail. Take you’re time and don’t cut all the way through the sight (go as close as you’re nerves allow) then hit it with you’re punch. That is how I got the rear sight out of my Kimber, nothing would move it. Cutting the slot will remove the pressure and allow the sight to come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted March 28, 2009 Author Share Posted March 28, 2009 That’s not right Flex you stole my drill lathe method, works pretty good if you take you’re time. If you are having that much trouble with the front sight just cut it out. Take you’re dremel and a cut off wheel and cut right through the middle of the sight just like you are trying to make a line through the center of the dovetail. Take you’re time and don’t cut all the way through the sight (go as close as you’re nerves allow) then hit it with you’re punch. That is how I got the rear sight out of my Kimber, nothing would move it. Cutting the slot will remove the pressure and allow the sight to come out. Now that is what I call a good idea! Hadn't thought about that, but you're right. Just a slit most of the way through with a cut off wheel and one whack with the punch should do it! You rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan45kim Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 Glad I could help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted April 3, 2009 Author Share Posted April 3, 2009 Glad I could help Worked like a champ....cut it as close as I could get and then a few taps with a drift and it popped right out. I'm in the process of fitting the new Dawson FO sight now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Knight Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Well how's she look? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vetts1911 Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 We used dry ice to shrink the race for the bearing when we rebuilt our jet engines. If you ever have to do this again it works well since it will transfer the temp to the area much faster. I am glad that I ran in to this cause I am about to take this on. I just put a 10-8 rear sight on my M&P. Love the sight but, hate the area that sticks out on the sides. I will have to take off and blend and reinstall. I didn't enjoy playing with the safety at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted April 4, 2009 Author Share Posted April 4, 2009 Looks pretty good. Shot it yesterday and factory 115s and 124s are a touch low (like an inch) so it might be right on the money when my 147s get here next week....we'll see! R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan45kim Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 G-Manbart what height front sight did you use? I’m finishing up an M&P 9L for production. I’m using the rear sight from an M&P pro but I’m not sure about the front sight height, but it will be a Dawson front sight. Heck I still have to decide on 125s or 147s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted April 5, 2009 Author Share Posted April 5, 2009 G-Manbart what height front sight did you use? I’m finishing up an M&P 9L for production. I’m using the rear sight from an M&P pro but I’m not sure about the front sight height, but it will be a Dawson front sight. Heck I still have to decide on 125s or 147s. I went with the Dawson FO that's .100" wide by .180" tall. I've only shot the gun with factory 115gr and 124gr ammo. They both hit a little bit below the point of aim. At 25yds, the 124s are about 1" low and the 115's maybe 1.5" low...give or take. It's not a lot, but it's there. I have some 147gr Atlanta Arms Team Glock 147gr JHP on the way so I should be able to try them out sometime next week and report back about where they're hitting. I shot the gun on the classifier today (with the 124s) and sure enough, they picked 50yd standards! Wonderful....still, I got all my hits at 50yds. They were roughly centered on the bottom half of the A zone. If I were to shoot that again I'd simply hold at the top of the box and it'd be fine. We'll see what the 147s do soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan45kim Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Please let us know how the 147s work for you. Right now I'm thinking a 160 front sight is what I should get if I run 125s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 Please let us know how the 147s work for you. Right now I'm thinking a 160 front sight is what I should get if I run 125s. Sure...should be later this week before I get to try the 147s. I'm not reloading 9mm right now as we have the house on the market and I'm trying to reduce the clutter in my "shop" but the Atlanta Arms stuff is great and should be right in the ballpark I'm looking for. They told me it tends to run 920-930fps in most guns. I was thinking about what front sight height would be perfect with the 124s and I'm not sure, but .160 might be a bit too short.....170 might be right since .180 was close. I don't know if anyone has a chart for how much change in front sight equals how much change in point of impact at set distances, but it'd be helpful. I know Dawson lists FO front sights for M&P's in .160, .170, .180, .190, .200, .210, and .265 tall. Speed Shooter Specialites only seems to offer some of the heights, but they do have a custom listed that they'll make to your spec (it's a Dawson as well). R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) Shoot the gun at 25 yards at specific point, try to shoot as small a group as possible. Measure the distance from point of aim to point of impact (middle of group). Do the math (trig) to see what the angle of divergence is. Example: 25 yards = 900 inches. If the point of impact is off by 3 inches, that would be .190985224 in decimal degrees or 0.11' 27" 55 in degrees, minutes and seconds. That would be read as zero degrees, eleven minutes, twenty seven point fifty five seconds. Decimal degrees are used to make the calculations. Then measure the sight radius on the gun, the distance from the back of the rear sight to the back of the front sight. For example, a 4" barrel Smith revolver has a 6" sight radius. A close approximation is good enough (ruler or tape measure). Then figure the divergence of .190985224 DD in 6 inches. In this case, a correction of .020 would bring the point of impact to point of aim. Any known distance can be used for the shooting part, I just use 25 yards as a convenient standard. This works the same way for windage and elevation. For windage adjustments on fixed sights, I put the slide in the mill vise with masking tape on both jaws and a dial test indicator in the spindle. Zero the DRO and indicator on one part of the sight and raise the quill to get the indicator off the sight. Drift sight with punch and hammer, bring the indicator back on the sight and move table in Y axis to zero indicator. Look at Digital ReadOut to see how far sight moved. Repeat as needed. Edited April 6, 2009 by Toolguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kend Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 We tried the MGW sight pusher on an M&P front and broke the sight in half, that one required some motivation with a Snap-On 16 oz. Dead Blow. I called MGW about the tool not fitting the 5" and they said they knew about it but weren't sure if they were going to make a tool for the 5", we'll see. We have most of the Dawson front sights here but haven't had time to add them to the online catalog, the sights we don't have are on backorder right now. As far as our custom front sight being a Dawson, it's not. The custom front sights we offer are machined from bar stock on order to the dimensions specified by the customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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