Bullets coming apart

[saibot]

At today's match when I was told to "unload and make clear," I racked the slide and noticed powder in the chamber. It looked like the round had come apart and just figured it all dropped out the magwell. Thank God I played it safe and took my M&P apart in the safety area to check because the bullet was still in the barrel! I went to an empty bay and put a few more rounds down range and all went well but I continued to check the barrel after each stage. A couple of stages later when unloading and making clear I noticed that it was very difficult to rack the slide and the round separated again leaving the bullet in the barrel.

What's going on?

I've just started reloading and was using a Lee taper die but just switched to a Lee factory crimp die and I was thinking maybe I wasn't crimping enough. Or could this be something in the barrel that is clamping the bullet in place causing it to separate when it's racked. I didn't notice anything unusual in the barrel when I cleaned it afterward.

Any ideas? How can you tell if you're crimping enough with the Lee factory crimp die?

Thanks!

[DougCarden]

Bullets are loaded too long and are stuck in the leade of the barrel. If you chamber a round and eject it look at the front of the bullet. You will see marks where it is getting pushed into the rifling.......

If you reduce your OAL and it keep doing it, then I would look at the crimp, but it sounds like your OAL is too much for the chamber...

Good luck,

DougC

[The_Vigilante]

+1 on that. I am a new reloader and reloaded some 124g lrn to 1.14 which I soon found out was too long-bullets got stuck in the barrel-hard to eject. Have since shortened them to 1.125 and hope that is short enough. What OAL are you using and what type of bullets?

[saibot]

DC-

Good call! I didn't even think about that but it makes sense and really fits the symptoms.

Anyone have any OAL suggestions for the M&P FS9 with 125 grain precision bullets? I've been setting it at 1.1355, so I'll try to go a little shorter.

For the remaining 800 rounds from that batch can I set the bullet a little deeper after it's been crimped?

Thanks for your help!

[h2osport]

What caliber? On my Lee factory crimp, I just run it down until I see a shine right at the end of the case. Not a ton of crimp.

[saibot]

What caliber? On my Lee factory crimp, I just run it down until I see a shine right at the end of the case. Not a ton of crimp.

9mm. That's about the amount of crimp I give them. So I'm guessing that it's the OAL that I need to fix.

Thanks!

[MemphisMechanic]

Should be able to just bump them down to about 1.125" if you're loading to minor, and there's no concern about going over the max charge or compressing the load. (Didn't mention what load you were using).

This is very dependent on the gun. Even with the fat, blunt-nosed 147 Precision Delta FMJ, I can load them so long they won't fit in the mag using my Glock 34, and it will still eat them like candy.

On the crimp, less is more with 9mm. Just enough to remove the bell on the case, and stop. Sounds like you're already about right in this department.

Edited February 16, 2009 by MemphisMechanic

[revchuck]

Check your crimp with either a micrometer or a dial caliper...it should be about .378". Since you're new to this, let me be the first to tell you that yes, you do need a dial caliper!

If you don't have one, use a good-quality factory round to set your crimp die. Back out the crimp die, put the round in the shell plate, and run the shell plate all the way to the top. Screw the crimp die down until it firmly touches the factory round, bring the shell plate all the way to the bottom, screw the crimp die in another eighth turn and lock it. You'll be good to go.

[al503]

To check if the OAL is too long, pull the BBL and drop a loaded round in the chamber. Make sure that you push the bullet in all the way. If you're able to pull the bullet back out without resistance, then it's not the OAL. Do this with a 10-20 bullets to make sure.

[Pat Miles]

At the range and in a safe direction chamber one of your "long(?)" rounds after blacking the entire bullet with a marker. Let the slide go forward as it normally would. Don't ease it forward. Now extract the round as you would during the "if clear" command. If it comes out in one piece okay. If it comes apart as before okay. After you have the bullet out look at it closely for shiney brass scars from being pushed into the rifling as stated by Doug. If this is the case you need to make some changes in your overall length. Depending on your load you could be causing a dangerous high pressure situation. First, if you are jamming the bullet into the rifling you are causing higher pressures. Second, when you jam the bullet into the rifling you might be causing the bullet to set back into the case which reduces OAL and very probably again high pressures. Okay now we put both of the possible problems together, set back and the bullet jammed into the rifling, which could be doubling the problem. Play it safe and use a pair of calipers to find a safe OAL for your loads. When you do shorten your OAL don't forget to consider your powder charge. You may have to back it down some. Best way to find a good, safe load is to use a chrono while developing a load for your gun.

CYa,

Pat

[saibot]

al503, I checked thirty of them and some are harder than others to get back out. None of them just fall out if turned upside down, even some of my old batch with the old taper die.

whatmeworry, I found one of my rounds that I "unloaded and made clear" that didn't come apart and the OAL is still fine so it appears that they're not compressing, but there were serious marks all the way to the brass around most of the bullet almost like it was too large. Could a barrel that wasn't cleaned enough get so much fouling that it could reduce the diameter and cause this? I didn't clean it after the last time I used it.

Thanks for all of the tips, everyone!

[Jim Norman]

GET A MANUAL AND READ IT!

Just shortening your OAL might keep the bullet from sticking in the barrel, but im might also raise the pressure high enough to cause you to KABOOM your gun!

ALWAYS start low with your charge and work it up. If you change heads, either batch or brand, then do it again, also you may need to reverify your OAL.

Jim

[lcs]

You could be putting to much bell (which will enlarge the whole case). You should just have enough bell to barely set the bullet in.

The proper adjustment for the Lee FCD is, (1) Back out the adjustment knob on the FCD a lot( left turn). (2) With a round you just seated a bullet in, cycle the round fully into the FCD and then slowly turn the knob to the right until you feel resistance (3) then slowing lower the arm to clear the round from the FCD and hold it there and turn the FCD knob a half turn to the right. (4) re-insert the round into the FCD and then ck the crimp.

Note: Make sure you have a case in every stage and make sure the FCD is adjusted correctly in relation to the shellplate.

[saibot]

Thanks for all of the great advice!

Looking back through my reloading data I noticed two variables that were changed when I made this last batch of bullets. I went from the taper die to the LFCD, and I went from my usual 1.1325ish OAL to closer to 1.14ish in hopes of having a little softer load. I think I have the LFCD set correctly and will verify with my calipers, which leaves the OAL change as the likely culprit. I'll run them back through the seating die and see if that fixes the problem.

And Fullrace, I wish needed to check with all of the stations in place! I'm still cranking them out on my Lee single stage press!

Since I'm still learning (obviously) the finer points about reloading I'm just fine with going slow and focusing on one thing at a time...for the time being.

I'll buy something from Brian before too long.

Thanks again everyone!

[al503]

al503, I checked thirty of them and some are harder than others to get back out. None of them just fall out if turned upside down, even some of my old batch with the old taper die.

Can you see any groove marks on the bullets you're pulling out?

You might also want to make sure that the chamber is clean. Take a bronze brush and make sure that there isn't anything or any build up in the chamber.

[saibot]

al503, I checked thirty of them and some are harder than others to get back out. None of them just fall out if turned upside down, even some of my old batch with the old taper die.

Can you see any groove marks on the bullets you're pulling out?

You might also want to make sure that the chamber is clean. Take a bronze brush and make sure that there isn't anything or any build up in the chamber.

al503, I kept the two bullets that came apart in the barrel and they do have a mark right at the point where the tapper ends and the .355 begins. I'm guessing that the little extra OAL I used was just enough to engage the smaller section of the barrel. I hadn't cleaned it after the last match either so there's a good chance it had plenty of gunk in it. I'm guessing that all of these things worked in concert to push the crimp over the tipping point. I'll remedy all of these things and let you know how it goes.

Thanks again!