Duane Thomas Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Also, the forward movement of the slide is slowed and cushioned by the cartridge coming up out of the magazine. There's a world of difference between doing a speedload from slidelock and dropping the slide on an empty chamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Now I know none of us runs the gun dry right? I do it all the time in practice... I never do --- but then I'm often alone when I practice, so my gun stays hot the entire time..... ....and my slide locks work..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 (edited) The trigger is held to the rear during the cycle and the sear is disconnected from the hammer when you shoot the gun dry..... I'm off that trigger long before that slide comes forward Howard. So I would say no... it's not held to the rear when the slide comes back into battery. I think you are talking the mechanics of what's going on between the two... maybe I don't get what you are saying cause I don't see the dif. Edited January 8, 2009 by JThompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 No you aren't Jim, get some high speed video. Unless you can break out some .05 splits you aren't even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 No you aren't Jim, get some high speed video. Unless you can break out some .05 splits you aren't even close. I see what you mean... the cyclic rate of the gun is what you are driving at. How do you explain a bump fire then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 No you aren't Jim, get some high speed video. Unless you can break out some .05 splits you aren't even close. I see what you mean... the cyclic rate of the gun is what you are driving at. How do you explain a bump fire then? Accident --- unless you do it regularly..... ....and I'd probably be more inclined to want to rule out a trigger job going bad.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 I've seen splits as low as .05 bump firing intentionally, that tells me the gun cycled completely, the slide closed and inertia pulled the gun forward enough to pull the trigger again so the slide has been closed for some period of time already at .05. That was outdoors, no echos, and with my 6" gun which will run marginally slower than an Open gun. Perception and reality are different, you can think you are resetting the trigger before the slide closes when in reality all that will do is not reset the trigger and you will have to do it again. Play with that cycling it by hand. What will happen is the trigger will pull all the way back again and have to be released again to allow the disconnector to engage the sear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 I've seen splits as low as .05 bump firing intentionally, that tells me the gun cycled completely, the slide closed and inertia pulled the gun forward enough to pull the trigger again so the slide has been closed for some period of time already at .05. That was outdoors, no echos, and with my 6" gun which will run marginally slower than an Open gun. Perception and reality are different, you can think you are resetting the trigger before the slide closes when in reality all that will do is not reset the trigger and you will have to do it again. Play with that cycling it by hand. What will happen is the trigger will pull all the way back again and have to be released again to allow the disconnector to engage the sear. I found some good animations on it that helped me get my mind around it... Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 "Bump fire"? Definition, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkeeler Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 "Bump fire"? Definition, please. I think it is something like this. http://www.rrmemphis.com/fastshots.mpg I seen TG do this in a demo with a 45 few years back at MSSA. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anubis Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 This holds true for airsoft 1911-2011 replicas as well My airsoft went full auto on me after about 1000 rounds through it because after firing I do the unload/show clear/hammer down just to get it into good practice and I have a bad habit of letting the slide drop Quick fix though just bent the little plate behind the sear and it works like a champ again I have no idea what that little plate is called Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Duane, you use the recoil of the gun to move it away from a stationary finger that pushed the trigger, and a slight push forward on the gun hand as well as the normal reciprocation of the gun to move it back forward into the stationary trigger finger that again releases the trigger. Here is a vid of a rifle and a decent explanation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Va1TXGSCXk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I've never been concerned about dropping the slide on an empty chamber, either deliberately or when run dry. When the slide is on its forward motion, the trigger is disconnected from the hammer/sear assembly before the slide picks up another round, or not, as the case may be. This disconnection continues until the slide is back in battery. Dropping the slide isn't going to affect anything unless your trigger job was defective to begin with ie. the sear pops out of the hammer hooks from the impact. Glen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeanpilot Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Dropping the slide isn't going to affect anything unless your trigger job was defective to begin with ie. the sear pops out of the hammer hooks from the impact. Glen Did you ever think about the under lugs on the slide stop pin? It's the only stop point in the forward motion of the upper gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Did you ever think about the under lugs on the slide stop pin? It's the only stop point in the forward motion of the upper gun. Yes, I've thought about it. We pound on the under lugs and slide stop pin every time we fire the gun. Many thousands of rounds worth. I don't expect the parts to fail by dropping the slide on an empty chamber. There isn't enough of an energy difference (between the two situations) to do that. I seldom do it , but I don't chastise myself if I do. Glen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheik_djibouti Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 ok, i'm a noob so go easy on me i had a famous gm tell me that when he drops the slide on his 1911-type after "clear", he holds the trigger back to keep the hammer/sear engagement from jarring. if that is going to make your ro's uneasy, the easy answer is ease the slide forward. when the gun is firing, the round getting picked up and sliding up the breechface when chambering is going to retard the forward motion to mitigate the jarring (when compared to dropping it on an empty chamber), and if you're like most shooters you'll still be holding back your trigger anyways and manipulating the sear reset after the new round is chambered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 The problem I have with "hold the trigger to the rear, drop the slide" is that, under stress, especially for a newer shooter, I could easily see things getting switched around and the procedure becoming "drop the slide, hold the trigger to the rear...." Oops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeanpilot Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 >>Yes, I've thought about it. We pound on the under lugs and slide stoppin every time we fire the gun. Many thousands of rounds worth. I don't expect the parts to fail by dropping the slide on an empty chamber. There isn't enough of an energy difference (between the two situations) to do that. I seldom do it , but I don't chastise myself if I do. Glen Just for the fun, watch this one: http://ipsc.invisionzone.com/index.php?act...ost&id=2153 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Just for FYI... I had over 150k on mine, cracked the slide and burned up the barrel... I dropped away whenever and it never followed it didn't screw anything up. I just had my smith put a new barrel/slide on it and he said it still breaks where it was set and the geometry looks fine. Much ado imho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msshooter Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Well, I'm embarressed to say "I didn't know that". I'm a new handgun owner and nobody ever told me this - and the sales people I've been around just let it clank shut! Learn something new daily on this forum! Thanks! My wife and I were window shopping for her a new gun by letting her get the feel for several different guns @ our local gun shop and the clerk let the slide fly on every gun he handed us. I cringed every time. Would NEVER buy a gun from them off the shelf. Hell, I would not even use them for FFL, he may fondle my new gun and do the same thing! Just think how many times those "NEW" guns have been slammed down before you buy off the shelf! Just something to think about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msshooter Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I've never been concerned about dropping the slide on an emptychamber, either deliberately or when run dry. When the slide is on its forward motion, the trigger is disconnected from the hammer/sear assembly before the slide picks up another round, or not, as the case may be. This disconnection continues until the slide is back in battery. Dropping the slide isn't going to affect anything unless your trigger job was defective to begin with ie. the sear pops out of the hammer hooks from the impact. Glen Yeah, but just think how much undue/unnecessary stress you put on your gun. I personally didn't spent all that money to beat the hell out of my gun for no reason! IMHO, it's just to easy to let it ride down with the weak hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewToy Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Just FYI, we drop the slides on empty chambers of all our Berreta M9's hundreds of time a year with no problems. The one I was issued is 9 years old and hasn't had any cracks or parts replaced yet. But there is not alot in common with our M9's and an uber $ tuned race gun. After reading this thread I'll likely not do it to my own weapons anymore, just in case, Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franksremote Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Wanna watch someone cringe? Look over a high-end 1911 at the local gun shop. Drop the slide with the lever, unretarded. Seen that twice, hard to keep from laughing at the look on the salesguy's face. Your local gun shops have knowlegeable sales staff? Wow... Hey... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 I understand the geometry better now that I have been tinkering a bit. Let me put it this way... I wouldn't think twice about it with a stock gun, but the lighter the trigger is the more I would tend to be gentle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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