How to sell a gun

[Sarge]

Hey all,Hope everyone had a decent Christmas.

How do I sell a gun and ship to somebody? I mentioned on another forum that I had an M&P9c I might be willing to sell. BAM!!! A guy wants it right now. What is the procedure? I am not a dealer or anything, so no ffl. I don't take paypal. I don't want to get screwed.

Please help.

[GlockSpeed31]

The way I have done it, I accept USPS Money Order and ship to their FFL dealer after I get a signed copy of that dealer's FFL (and is verified that is still in good standing with ATF) and funds in full. You can usually ship via UPS to their FFL without using your FFL (need to check with your local & state laws to make sure not overlooking something), just provide a copy of your driver's license and if applicable, a copy of your gun permit. You will need to make sure that that FFL dealer will accept a shipment from a non-FFL holder (you).

[hitman]

You can also ship USPS if you fill out the form.

[warpspeed]

You can also ship USPS if you fill out the form.

Not unless you are an FFL holder. Big no-no to ship a handgun via USPS.

It must be shipped by UPS or Fedex. They have there own set of rules. Do a search. Last I checked, Fedex requires all handguns to be shipped Priority Overnight ( not cheap ). Not sure of UPS requirements.

Glockspeed31 has it down. Payment & copy of FFL. Ship to FFL w/ photocopy of my DL and bill of sale to buyer.

[bgary]

CAREFUL.

There are three issues you need to consider:

1 - what your *state* laws say about transfering a gun

2 - what the Federal laws say about transfering a gun

3 - the Federal laws about *shipping* a gun.

For example: Here in Washington state, there are no state laws restricting face-to-face sales. So, if I want to sell a gun to a guy at a gunshow or match, we can trade gun for cash and go our merry ways. I have some responsibilities (like, under Federal law, I can't "knowingly" sell a gun to someone who is disqualified from owning a gun), and I have some... uh... interest in being able to prove that I no longer have the gun, so I may do a bill of sale, put the guy's drivers' license number or concealed permit number on it, and tuck it away in my records in case I ever need it. But I do those things to protect myself, not because there is a state law that requires it.

The same transaction in California is prohibited. I would *not* be able to sell a gun face-to-face if I were a resident of California, because state laws there require that all firearms transactions go through an FFL, and are subject to the state waiting periods. So... if you are thinking of selling a gun face-to-face, you have to know the laws of your state of residence. Also note - you canNOT sell a gun (face to face) to a person who is *not* a resident of your own state. According to Federal law, a person canNOT buy a handgun anywhere but their own state of residence. A person *may* buy a long gun outside their home state, but only from a licensed dealer.

A handgun that is being transferred across state lines *must* go through an FFL on the receiving end. There are lots of other Federal laws worth knowing. The easiest source of info is the ATF "FAQ" section at http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b - pay particular attention to the laws that define what a "non-licensee" can or cannot do.

In terms of shipping, ANYONE can ship a firearm to an FFL whether in your state or another state. Handguns *must* go by common carrier (UPS, FEDEX, etc) if you are not an FFL. Long guns may be mailed. In either case, Federal law requires that you declare there is a gun in the package. Some FFLs won't "accept" shipment of a firearm from a non-licensee. There is no law that requires an FFL to initiate shipment on the sending end, but it makes some FFLs nervous to accept shipments from "just anyone". Their choice. Your options are to ask your buyer to work with an FFL that will accept a shipment from you, or.. to have an FFL on your end ship the package.

B

[Jaxshooter]

You also don't need a copy of the FFL. Get the name and address and look it up with theATF to see if it is active.

[bgary]

You also don't need a copy of the FFL.

You're right, the law doesn't require it. But in the time-honored tradition of small people abusing small amounts of power and making up their own rules, many Fedex and UPS counter-jockeys claim that they "have to verify" it before they'll accept the shipment.

I like to have a copy of the FFL just to make things go easier (and for my own records). ymmv.

[hitman]

My bad didnt read / see the M&P9.

[Graham Smith]

You also don't need a copy of the FFL. Get the name and address and look it up with theATF to see if it is active.

True. But it's nice to have them include a copy of the FFL when they send payment. For one thing, I was advised by a local FFL to include in the package a signed bill of sale and a copy of the receivers FFL, just in case.

And by the way, the restrictions on sending a handgun are quite strict and expensive (UPS Overnight, insured, adult signature is about $80+). If you have an FFL in your area that will send it for you, they may be able to do this less expensively as they can use USPS.

Also, be sure that your sales agreement is for the receiver to pay shipping costs.

[GlockSpeed31]

And by the way, the restrictions on sending a handgun are quite strict and expensive (UPS Overnight, insured, adult signature is about $80+).

Courious, by who's rules?

[Graham Smith]

Courious, by who's rules?

A non-FFL cannot send a handgun via USPS. That leaves "common carriers" such as UPS and FEDEX. If you go to their web sight and read their rules, you will find them extremely restrictive. For example, from UPS:

"Handguns, as defined by 18 U.S.C. § 921,will be accepted for transportation only via UPS Next Day Air® Early A.M.®, UPS Next Day Air®, or UPS Next Day Air Saver® services. (Note: UPS Express CriticalSM Service is not available for firearms)."

"Packages containing handguns must be separated from other packages being delivered to UPS."

"# You can only ship your package that contains a handgun from UPS daily pickup accounts or through UPS Customer Centers (counters at UPS operational facilities). Note: Handguns are not accepted for shipment through UPS Internet Shipping, UPS Drop Boxes, or UPS On-Call PickupSM, or at The UPS Store® or any third party retailer."

"# When you are shipping a package that contains a handgun, you must verbally notify the UPS driver or UPS Customer Center clerk. "

[kgunz11]

CAREFUL.

According to Federal law, a person canNOT buy a handgun anywhere but their own state of residence. A person *may* buy a long gun outside their home state, but only from a licensed dealer.

B

Where do you get that???

That is incorrect. Not a Federal law. It might be a State law for you, but it's no Federal law. I can buy a handgun from any State I want to but it has to be transferred to me here in Georgia.

For example, I can not go to Florida FTF and purchase a handgun because their State law says they don't sell handguns to non residents. I CAN go online and order that same handgun from that same dealer and have it shipped to my FFL for transferring.

Another example of State law is Texas, you can only buy a long gun from a bordering State.

As a resident of Georgia, I can buy long guns from anyone in any State. If I buy out of State, it has to come to my FFL. If I buy a long gun from a Georgia resident he can ship it directly to my home, no FFL is required.

[warpspeed]

Not to drift this too far but I think what Bruce means is that you can buy a gun from a seller in any state but it has to be transfered to you by a FFL holder in your state and not the state of purchase.

[bgary]

Sorry to be unclear.

Yes, warpspeed is right. I can buy a handgun from a seller in any state, but it has to come into *my* state through an FFL in my state, and then transferred to me.

What I meant was that if I am *visiting* another state, I can't legally buy a handgun - either at a gun store or face-to-face. The Federal law says I can only acquire a handgun in my own state of residence. So no matter how cool that gun is that a guy has for cash-sale after the match in Tulsa (or whatever), I can't walk away with it. Legally, I have to have him ship it to an FFL in my own state, and I have to do paper on it there.

ObNote: whn a seller ships a gun to an FFL in my state, and I complete the transaction through that FFL, I am "acquiring the gun in my state of residence", no matter where it came from.

B

[kgunz11]

"Point of Purchase" and State of transfer are two different things. Just ask your local tax guy. You'd be surprised what additional taxes you can be charged if you are ever audited.