Cylinder & Slide 1911 School

[Guy Neill]

If you have the opportunity (and interest and money), go top the C&S school. It will give you a great coverage of the 1911 outside anything requiring machine tools or checkering a frontstrap (not enough time).

Guy

[pjb45]

Bill is quite a character. There are two members of the Pistolsmith Guild at C&S. He has been in the business long enough to know what works for him and how to teach others to do it right. He is also smart enough to ask others for help. He took my BHP to Irv at BarSto to fit the barrel. You see, Bill was not happy there was a flier. It did not matter that the groups were very good, he wanted outstanding. It has no fliers now.

Bill's class is expensive. He sometimes will teach a class prior to a big match, I am thinking he used to go to the one in CO and put on a 1 day class. Call him and see if he is going there or to Bianchi, Camp Perry, etc. I have not seen him a USPSA Nationals in the last 5 years. BTW: do not go to NE in the winter time. It is wicked cold. Summers are hot and humid.

BTW: get directions. I spent about 45 minutes looking for his shop. At the time, it just had a very little sign outside.

BTWW: I can attest to "WhatmeWorry" said. He learned a lot from those guys. His trigger jobs are fantastic.

[Cigar Guy]

I'm getting the itch to really learn 1911 pistolsmithing. Anyone ever attend the Cylinder & Slide 1911 school? Thoughts?

I have actually attended both of Bill's 1911 classes, the two-day barrel fitting and the five-day gun building version. As other posters have mentioned, the classes are not cheap, but I think they are well worth the expense.

In the barrel fitting class, you start with a fully functioning gun that you already own. Bill teaches how to file fit a Bar-Sto barrel to that gun. It is a match/gunsmith fit barrel so everything is oversized. Prior to class, Bill turns down the diameter about .010" on his shop lathe, leaving the muzzle at the original dimension, tapering to the reduced portion. You learn how to file fit the hood & lugs, upper and lower, using files and the Brownells hand cutter. After the barrel itself is fit, you then cut the short chamber to minimum dimensions with a Manson reamer. The bushing in the barrel fitting class is a drop-in Bar-Sto. Ironic, but done for purposes of saving time, since the bushing in the five-day class is a hard fit, and the barrel there is virtually a drop-in.

The five-day gunsmithing class starts with a box of parts, none of which fit together initially. Slide and frame are first to be matched up. The slide has already been machined at Bill's shop for whatever set of sights you want, Bo-Mar, Novak, or Heinie. Other choices include short or long trigger, magazine well funnel or not, tactical or target thumb safety, single-sided or ambi, and tactical or match hammer & sear set. Other than that, you will be building a Government sized .45 ACP pistol with Bill's listed parts. After the frame and slide are matched up, other major projects include bushing fit, cutting and filing the frame for a high grip safety, fitting sights, fitting and adjusting the trigger, throat and polish the barrel, fitting and tensioning the extractor, adjusting the ejector, general blending and dehorning. By the end of the week, you have a hand-built tightly fitted custom pistol that you built. The only thing left to do is final polishing and put on a finish of your choice, each of which you do on your own after class.

During class, Bill interjects relevant stories from having served as a warranty repair station for Colt, as well as common problems he has seen with guns sent in for repair over the years. Besides learning how to build a gun, you will also have a very good idea how to fit replacement parts for other 1911s. Some of Bill's students go into gunsmithing after the class. Most just repair their own guns, or work on stuff for friends.

Bill encourages everyone to finish their class project gun soon after the class, and then to build at least one more pistol shortly thereafter to help set the skills learned in class. After file fitting the parts for the class, I took things another step further and bought a mill and a lathe for my own projects. Matt made some good points earlier about being able to do work faster with a mill and lathe, but you still need to understand the basics of how the parts fit together, and final fitting will always be done by hand with a few strokes of the file, or application of lapping compound. The class teaches everything from the ground up, so graduates will have a very good understanding of the basics. Bill is also available by telephone for technical support with the remainder of your gun project, or any other 1911 project you pick up later. A side benefit of the class is that 1911 and 2011 competition pistols that you own or use will run better after you tweak and tune them. Little quirks are also easily avoided by removing the problems that cause them in advance.

All in all, I think the classes are well worth it, and I would encourage anyone who wants to build or work on 1911s to take this class. It is a rare opportunity to learn from an expert in this field with over 20 years' experience.

Scott

[latewatch]

About 10-12 years ago I took a 1911 Accurizing class at Trinidad State Junior College in Trinidad, Colorado. The instructor was Jim Stroh who did a great job IMHO. The class was either one or two weeks depending on how much you wanted to learn with the first week covering trigger work, cutting front and rear sights on a mill and a few other items. The second week was dedicated to fitting the slide to frame, fitting the barrel and a few other items. The last day you cleaned and polished the frame, slide, etc. and blued everything.

The class I took was far enough back that squeezing and peening the slide/ frame was the predominant method of fitting as oversize frames and slides were just coming on the market. Yeah, I'm old.

I took another course several years back on AR-15's that was taught by Derek Martin of Accuracy Speaks in Mesa, AZ.

In both cases the cost of the class was very reasonable. You could stay on campus in a dorm or rent a motel room off campus. Dorm rooms were dirt cheap at the time but sparton at best. Meals were served at the campus cafeteria. Inexpensive and pretty good.

You provide your own hand tools with a list of suggested tools provided well in advance.

If you can take a week or two for the classes TSJC is a good alternative.

CYa,

Pat

Jim Stroh built my first 45 Comp Gun in the early 80's. It was hands down the most accurate pistol I've ever shot.

[Pat Miles]

Yeah, Jim was the American Pistolsmith Guild's Pistolsmith of the Year the year I attended TSJC. I think that was 1986? He is a true gentleman.

CYa,

Pat

[Heavy Barrel]

BTW: do not go to NE in the winter time. It is wicked cold. Summers are hot and humid.

I'll vouch for that!!!

And I live in this cruel state.

Does any one know if he still offers his revolver classes or discontinued them....Nothing on his web site about the classes.

[GJ047]

I also attended Bill's five day class. It was a great experience and well worth the money. Bill's stories on the inner workings of the gun business were great and the entire experience is something that I will always be proud of. There are other reasons to attend this course other than just obtaining the basic knowledge of fitting a 1911. The course is very fast paced. Read your books and know how to file before you get there. Bill jumps into it quick and before you know it you will be taking a hacksaw to your frame (Serioiusly, we used a hacksaw to cut off the frame tangs). Although you won't have much time to do so, take lots of notes. The crew at Cylinder and Slide were great and I could not reccomend the experience highly enough.

Gary

[G-ManBart]

BTW: do not go to NE in the winter time. It is wicked cold. Summers are hot and humid.

I'll vouch for that!!!

And I live in this cruel state.

Does any one know if he still offers his revolver classes or discontinued them....Nothing on his web site about the classes.

http://www.cylinder-slide.com/classes.shtml