Does Nationals Feel Like A Overgrown Area?

[kimel]

Move the Nationals out of the boonies if you want but put it in a gun friendly state. This eliminates CA, MA, IL, etc. But wait you say...Berry is in IL. Yep, and it is not a gun friendly state which makes it all that more ludicrous that "we" continue to host a nationals there.

What the heck. Build a nice big range in Texas near DFW or HOU or whatever big airport you want and hold the Nationals in the Fall when it cools down a bit.

USPSA could run shuttle vans from the airport to the match hotel a LOT cheaper than the sum total of all the cab fares and/or rental cars used by the competitors. These same shuttles could run between the hotel and the range. Charge everyone $25 to use the shuttles for the 3 days and away you go. You also reduce the parking issues at the range.

Flying into a major hub like HOU or DFW makes connections easier and fares cheaper. There are also more hotels than you can shake a stick at in these towns which are crying for business. Texas is more-or-less in the middle, albiet a bit south of the actual middle so everyone is travelling about the same distance, more-or-less.

And no, I don't live in Texas. In fact, I have only been there a couple times and that was just passing through.

[TDean]

Jack, have you checked the availibility of a Springfield .40 double-stack?

Someone on the forum got a response back from the custom shop a while back. I remember it being over 2k !!

[Patrick Sweeney]

What the heck. Build a nice big range in Texas near DFW or HOU or whatever big airport you want and hold the Nationals in the Fall when it cools down a bit.

USPSA could run shuttle vans from the airport to the match hotel a LOT cheaper than the sum total of all the cab fares and/or rental cars used by the competitors. These same shuttles could run between the hotel and the range. Charge everyone $25 to use the shuttles for the 3 days and away you go. You also reduce the parking issues at the range.

???? Anything near a major hub is going to be expensive real estate. Building from scratch would require winning the lottery. Thus, we are stuck selecting from available ranges, at least until Bill Gates sees the light and becomes as converted Production shooter.

And within a few years, when the tourist shooters tire of the DFW sites and attractions, you'll get the inevitable "When will the Nats be on the West Coast?"

Shuttles are a good idea. Can we count on you to do the organizing? That is the essence of our problem: we have a limited number of ranges/matchdates/people we can call on.

[jhgtyre]

If we are to have a single range for the nationals it should be in or near Las Vegas. You can fly to Vegas from just about anywhere for cheap and there are a boatload of hotels, motels, and all that to choose from.

-ld

[Carlos]

I made the case for a nationals move to Area 8, but I would also be up for jhgtyre's suggestion of Las Vegas; it would make spending one week's worth of vacation time (out of the 2 or 3 weeks per year most Americans get) more marketable to everyone - especially to those with kids and/or a spouse since there is something else to do in the area during the Nationals week.

TDean asked: "Jack, have you checked the availibility of a Springfield .40 double-stack? Someone on the forum got a response back from the custom shop a while back. I remember it being over 2k !!"

They actually sell such things to the public? I have yet to see this gun advertised in their VERY common magazine ads or for sale through any of the SA dealers I have visited accross the US. In fact, I have never seen one at a match and I don't believe there were any SA 1911 widebodies at the XD match series. I appreciate their support for our sport and I am grateful for their revival of the imported Croatian HS2000 (aka the "XD"), however, it seems a bit cynical to use a gun like the .40 1911 widebody to win USPSA matches & then make the competition public jump through hoops to obtain one. For less than $2000, the S_I limited gun is a much better deal for the majority of the USPSA membership.

[Flexmoney]

TDean asked: "Jack, have you checked the availibility of a Springfield .40 double-stack? Someone on the forum got a response back from the custom shop a while back. I remember it being over 2k !!"

They actually sell such things to the public? I have yet to see this gun advertised in their VERY common magazine ads or for sale through any of the SA dealers I have visited accross the US. In fact, I have never seen one at a match and I don't believe there were any SA 1911 widebodies at the XD match series. I appreciate their support for our sport and I am grateful for their revival of the imported Croatian HS2000 (aka the "XD"), however, it seems a bit cynical to use a gun like the .40 1911 widebody to win USPSA matches & then make the competition public jump through hoops to obtain one. For less than $2000, the S_I limited gun is a much better deal for the majority of the USPSA membership.

I am with TDean & Carlos. My understanding is that you have to get a "Custom Shop" Springfield to get a double-stack 40. I truely appreciate their support (I'd look at them first for a single-stack), but I can't afford one of their custom shop guns.

They do have a "Loaded" model in a double-wide 45. Very affordable. If they would make it available in the 40...then that would be my platform if I ever gave up the tupperware.

They could also make frame/gunsmithing kits available too.

[Sterling White]

My 2 cents worth....

Locations - The point of the question is about "who" is willing to carry the burden to host a major match or nationals, not based on location because of access to a major metro area. Much more should be considered and based on a proven track record. Don't knock ILL...they did a great job, have a great range, and also catered to shooters. Hmmm.....build it and they will come!

Scoring - The results of a match can occur almost immediately with new technologies and software, hell - clubs using the software post and email scores out within a few hours after the match. The calculator is somewhere next to the slide-rules. Shooters now are cruzin in luxury at

major matches with stats people like Linda C and others out there burning up and down the road.

As far as a hit factor v. time penalty assesment - its a wash....the general public doesn't care because they don't get it....the run and gun game. My oppinion is leave the scoring as is with HF's but lets pursue the technology side of it.....a hand held device could be used to record the score, penalties, time, and calculate HF's with instant feedback via display screens like those used in steel challenge.

Shooters and USPSA Leadership make this sport what it is....public perception is a big animal and should be respected.

[sfinney]

"I've been to the Nationals where there were quite a few sponsors tents there. It was cool, it was fun, and we let them down. I know I'm biased, but I want to use Springfield Armory as an example. They pay out some bank to support these matches, yet the number of competitors using SA guns never increases. I remember several match statistics where the 2 or 3 SA guns used in the matches were Rob, Kippi, and me - um . . . the factory supported people. At what point did the shooters decide to support the sponsors? Without that support what would provoke a manufacturer to sponsor a match? I know lim-10 has changed some things - but I doubt enough to justify SA's expenditure. "

Jack,

I think you underestimate the sponsors' effects on the shooting crowd in general. Do I shoot a high cap Springfield pistol in Open and Limited? No. But as a result of my exposure to Springfield shooters and products, I bought an M1A, and XD-40, and a single stack 9mm govt. model ( that I DO use in Lim-10). By the same token, I own an LDA Para that I use in Production I probably wouldn't have bought if it wasn't from talking to Todd Jarrett.

I shoot an STI in Limited because they support the sport so much PLUS offer contingency awards if you place in major matches - otherwise I'd just as likely shoot an SV (and have done so in the past).

Compare it to Nascar - just because Jeff Gordon wins races in his "Monte Carlo" at the track, doesn't mean that people want to buy a Monte Carlo - but it does raise the consideration of all Chevrolet products when its time to buy, for some. People still aren't going to buy a Monte Carlo specifically if its not readily available, and unless its the best product (in their minds) in its class.

By the same token, I'm not going to buy a steel frame HiCap Springfield unless I can readily get one in race tune, and its (in my mind) the best product for the buck. If Springfield would make a "next generation" pistol that blows the doors off of STI / SV, people would buy one. In the mean tiime we will buy some of their other products, more than likely (at least I will).

I know that some of the top shooters like TGO and TJ use steel frame, para mag based guns, but they aren't really human anyway. They could win shooting blackpowder revolvers!

I don't feel like I've let Springfield (or other sponsors) down. But if they want me to buy a Hicap ISPC pistol, they need to make a newer (or at least available), more competitive model.

Of course, thats just my opinion.

p.s. - I bought Nowlin products for a few years just because I liked watching Julie Nowlin shoot - doesn't make real sense, but there it is !

[j1b]

I see the point you guys are making.

I don't have much of a rebuttal. I don't know the facts, just what my gut tells me. Expanding on the topic would cause a discussion that isn't based on fact, and that isn't fair to you guys or to SA. I know they are doing good, so I'm not that worried about it.

My only point, is that the investment of money needs to pay for itself, and I don't feel like it has for many sponsors. I would guess the decline in tents at the nationals to some degree indicates that might be a correct assumption.

You guys have a good point though.

Last argument? I think the TRP's are great Lim-10 or CDP guns, at great values, and I don't see a lot of them being purchased either (for competition). I don't know if this falls under support, or just the shooters choice in a market full of quality firearms.

JB

PS - We all liked watching Julie shoot

[Sterling White]

Check out this string...

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...&f=6&t=7388&hl=

[bgary]

My 2 cents worth....

Locations - The point of the question is about "who" is willing to carry the burden to host a major match or nationals, not based on location because of access to a major metro area. Much more should be considered and based on a proven track record. Don't knock ILL...they did a great job, have a great range, and also catered to shooters. Hmmm.....build it and they will come!

The USPSA Board has tried for *years* to come up with a good set of criteria for hosting the Nationals. We've looked at everything from whether a range should be centrally located (middle of the country) or have the match move around every year; near a decent-sized airport; near a good variety of reasonably priced hotels and restaurants; near things that are fun for the family to do; etc, etc, etc.

And you know what it always seems to come down to? Some range deciding that they *want* to host a Nationals. Yup, we could make all the plans in the world, but... it still depends on someone at a club poking their head up and saying "hey, let's see if we could have a Nationals here".

The biggest impact to location is not the range, the geography, or the locale.... it is the people. You need enough of them, of high-enough quality, to be able to put on the match. That's (IMO) the biggest reason why the Nationals keep going back to PASA - they have the experience and the willingness.

I know for *certain* that if another club, anywhere, were to pipe up and say "we want to do a Nationals", USPSA would pay very close attention.

Bruce