Boats Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Tried the search engine but could not find this specifically. Left side of the Stage III Baracade is my biggest weak point. right handed shooter. I think I have the waist up part worked out but waist down can't seem to get it just right. How about foot placement. Have been standing square to the target toes at 12/oc Do you think skewing to the left toes at 10 o/c is better. Why not 2 o/c ? Seems either is more stable than square. Next on Knees, reaching way over for the T3 I have to bend something. Is it better to left knee stiff and go to tip toe right foot or bend the left knee and keep my right foot flat. Right now either way is not real steady. No doubt I can work all of this out on my own but a steer in the right direction would cut the learning curve. Out of the box would be to switch to Weak hand so I don't have to lean quite so far. It could be better, could not be any worse. Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Put the feet where they feel comfortable, I would have them spaced apart a decent ways, bend that left leg as much as you need to so you can keep both feet on the ground. Keep practicing it, you'll get it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfie Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 I shot a classifier today and struggled with the same question for about 1 second and realized that squaring my feet off was my best bet. As for the knees I just ran into a double knee position. I find that unless I need to get back up shooting from both knees is more stable and as close to a standing position as possible. I know it's not easy for some shooters to get into a double knee kneel but if you can get there your shots may make up for the points down if you shoot from an unstable position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Out of the box would be to switch to Weak hand so I don't have to lean quite so far. It could be better, could not be any worse. Yes, it could be worse. Unless the course description mandates it, you never want to switch the gun to your less dextrous hand. As for the knees I just ran into a double knee position. I find that unless I need to get back up shooting from both knees is more stable and as close to a standing position as possible. I know it's not easy for some shooters to get into a double knee kneel but if you can get there your shots may make up for the points down if you shoot from an unstable position. Alfie, He's talking about shooting around the left side of the barricade while standing on String 1, not kneeling at the barrel on String 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMoore Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Me I always start out on the left hand side, that way I don't have to switch mid-string to my weaker side. I get to setup on it off the clock and get comfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boats Posted October 12, 2008 Author Share Posted October 12, 2008 Spent some time dry fire and working through this morning. This is what I came up with, comments welcome. Stage III first half of string one only. Left side of Bianchi barricade two shots each T1 T 2 T 3 Footwork only. I had been setting up way back from the Barricade. Always heard this was the way to go. Drew the angles in pencil on my shop floor. Setting up with my arms extended and palms flat on the barricade vs setting up arms extended fingertips out and some extra room. It takes 6 inches more lean to get on T3 when way back. Palms flat there is plenty of room for mag changes and switching the pistol to the right side. Too close is not good but it seems too far away is not good either. Particulary when the excessive lean makes me uncomfortable. Foot position. You have to index on something, no time to switch feet around. I lean less and am more stable on T 3 my most difficult target if I index square to it even though it's the last target engaged. That is the reverse of what I have always done. Have always Indexed square to the first target and swinging my body to the others. Knees. I think it's better to flex the left or outboard knee keeping my right foot flat on the ground. Of course the big thing is time. I need to get all I can out of smooth draws and mag changes but slow down and take plenty of time to make hits. Misses on this stage ruin the classifier. Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Foot position. You have to index on something, no time to switch feet around. I think that depends in large part on how tall you are. Our IDPA club president, RickB, is 6'5" and he can go from one side of the barricade on the classifier to the other without moving his feet, just by leaning from one side to the other. At 5'8" on the other hand, I have to begin standing to one side of the box for the first six shots, then move myself over to the other side for the last six. YMMV indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boats Posted October 14, 2008 Author Share Posted October 14, 2008 These left rights are confusing but, Was indexing my feet to the first target engaged, feet square to the target. Left side T1, gave a little shift duing the mag change, then indexed right side on T 3. Droped shots have shown a strong weakness in T 3 from the left side. The one I have to reach for unsteady. What has worked out dry fire is setting up with my feet square to T 3 when shooting left side of the barricade. Still start on T 1 but set up for T 3. It feels much better not so off balance. Three changes though not all due to the indexing feet. Not so far back from the barricade and bending my left knee keeping the right foot flat. Have not given any thought to doing the same thing on the other side as yet. Setting up on the last target instead of the first one engaged that is. Save that for next time, too many changes you can't see whats right and wrong. On the way to the range this morning to shoot live Left side of the barricade only. Will see if the drops have gone away. Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boats Posted October 14, 2008 Author Share Posted October 14, 2008 Live fire better. Better by degrees that is 3 small changes don't open any big doors but Change to setting up closer indexing to T 3 and bending left knee keeping right foot flat was noticeable on paper. Shot 8 sets of 6 shots all left side only, only fired on T 3 the one with the most stretch to get a sight picture. All 48 rounds on paper. mix of 0-1 & 3 down. More 3's than I would have liked but no misses either. Slowed down a lot too. Splits were rough figures draw 3 shot to shot 1.5 about 12 total. At that pace add a mag change and go right side for 6 more and it's going to be 26 plus That's slower than I usually shoot and could be the significant thing over the footwork. Once I get the move down can speed up some. Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Practice prepping the trigger, both as the gun is moving toward the first target to be engaged, and especially between targets, so that you're ready to fire the next shot as soon as the gun stabilizes on target, and you can cut immense amounts of time off Stage 3. I typically run Strings 2 and 3 in the 12-15 second range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boats Posted October 15, 2008 Author Share Posted October 15, 2008 Duane Thanks good tip. Trigger is one of the keys that for sure. Have a separate program on trigger control, mostly Bill drills and allowing the trigger to re-set not slapping. Taking the slack out is something ingrained from years of two stage service rifle trigger shooting. Had not thought much about it for stock pistols. But my 12 sec is for half of Stage III string 1 Whole string yesterday was mostly around 24 sec. I can shoot it faster but am slowing down trying to hit every time. Ideal for me is to crank up the speed drawing mag changes moving etc but still maintain good trigger control. Reason I am fussing over the grip index & position so much is I need it to make up for other deficiencies. Old eyes mostly, plus as a long time rifle competitor I trust good alignment and position and know how important it is. Once I get positon and movement down to routine will not think about it again. Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Foot position. You have to index on something, no time to switch feet around. I think that depends in large part on how tall you are. Our IDPA club president, RickB, is 6'5" and he can go from one side of the barricade on the classifier to the other without moving his feet, just by leaning from one side to the other. At 5'8" on the other hand, I have to begin standing to one side of the box for the first six shots, then move myself over to the other side for the last six. YMMV indeed. I'm 6'2" and just place my feet touching the inside of the barricade supports an arm's length back. No need for me to move. I'm already slow anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boats Posted October 15, 2008 Author Share Posted October 15, 2008 (edited) RevChuck Now that I have worked out left side of the barracade am going to see if I can break down the right side. I think while changing mags it's better to re-index my feet and go to the right side. Will put it on the clock to see if any time is lost while changing and moving feet at the same time. As a strict rule when changing mags I bring my pistol with the fresh magazine back to mid chest re check my grip Index under my dominant eye and roll out for the next string of shots. If I don't the first shot off a fresh mag is not in group. Could just as well re-set feet at the same time. Will see Boats Edited October 15, 2008 by Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Another tip that will take some time off your barricade strings: on the draw, there's nothing in the rules that says you can't lean out from cover slightly and visually acquire the first target before the beep. In IDPA "behind cover" means "your entire lower body behind cover and no more than 50% of your upper body exposed." Now, you'll run into some SOs who have their own definition of "behind cover" and will absolutely insist that you stand bolt upright with your entire body behind the barricade to start. Okay, fine. Pick out a spot on the barricade (a staple, splinter, knot in the wood, whatever - failing that, just a particular place on the barricade) that is right in line between your eye and the center of the 8" circle on the first target, and, at the timer's signal, lean out and draw the gun right next to that spot. You'll find the gun comes to rest already lined up with the first target. If you can learn to prep the trigger as the gun is on its way from the holster to the target, too, you can fire the first shot as soon as the gun stops moving. Pick out a similar place on the other side of the barricade, and move the gun right to there after the reload, and you can cut down immense amounts of time on acquiring that target as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Great tip. Thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glshooter Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Another tip that will take some time off your barricade strings: on the draw, there's nothing in the rules that says you can't lean out from cover slightly and visually acquire the first target before the beep. In IDPA "behind cover" means "your entire lower body behind cover and no more than 50% of your upper body exposed." I have never, ever encountered a SO who would allow that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boats Posted October 16, 2008 Author Share Posted October 16, 2008 Duane That's something to think about. I am a novice action pistol shooter so temper these times. Short range good draw and good hit is 2 sec mim 2.5 max. On the barricade it's 3 or 4 sec. No doubt the delay is in acquiring eye index on the target plus more care in aim with the longer distance, That time could be cut for sure. One thing I do is index my eye on the barricade were I expect the target to be even though I can't see it. That from peaking around before giving the SO the OK Off topic some but I shoot a lot of Rifle competition Scope Sights and Irons with adjustable Apertures front and rear, Blinders on my off eye side, All of this is to compensate for over 60 year old vision. Point is for years I shot matches OK on good eyesight and lately have found ways to compensate for age. Now I don't have it and not many ways to improve a stock handguns sights. I see the long targets ok but not precisely. However good grip position and no wasted time moving I think I can shoot this game. Thanks for the help Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19852 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 I am no footwork expert but I am a long time athlete and coach. Strength and conditioning make every athletic endevour easier. While working on your footwork get in some conditioning for your legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boats Posted October 16, 2008 Author Share Posted October 16, 2008 19852 Agree Have a regular workout program. Might be past 60 but never have been out of shape. Used to compete in several endurance sports. Now it's mostly gym with low impact aerobic and a bit of yoga thrown in. Yoga if you get into it is very well suited for shooting sports, although don't mention it to most people in the class. I see a lot of guys my age that can't shoot good because of condition. Thats a shame because most shooting sports don't take the sort of strength other sports do and you can be sucessful late in life. You do need to be flexable and have some endurance as well as strength. One of the better IDPA shooters in our club is over 75. Not first in matches but top 5 most of the time. He is smooth drops very few shots and outshoots lots of younger faster guys. He told me he shoots for mass and sees the target fuzzy. Plus his grip and positon are absolutly repeatable. Sit some time and go to school on those guys. Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben b. Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Another tip that will take some time off your barricade strings: on the draw, there's nothing in the rules that says you can't lean out from cover slightly and visually acquire the first target before the beep. In IDPA "behind cover" means "your entire lower body behind cover and no more than 50% of your upper body exposed." I have never, ever encountered a SO who would allow that. I have, and it's IDPA legal on the classifier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19852 Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Hey Boats, my coaching and athletic background revolve around boats. I agree about yoga, great for pre-match stretching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Great tip. Thanks... No charge. All part of our fast, friendly service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 I have never, ever encountered a SO who would allow that. I've only ever encountered one who wouldn't - but I'm sure more are out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Thanks for the help Yer welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 One of the better IDPA shooters in our club is over 75. My hero! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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