j1b Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 Just curious, as I get back into this gig - what a couple of standard times are on 7 yard targets. Basically - what's a fast 1 reload 1, and what's a fast 2 reload 2. I went to the range on Saturday and was pretty happy with the results. Target was a little sprayed in the begining, couple of D's - but once I got going it all came together pretty good. No misses at all. On the 1 reload 1 my average time was around 1.95 or so. I burned one out, a .84 draw and a .83 reload but it was a fluke. Most of them were .90-.97 draws and 1.0 reloads, somewhere around there. On the 2 reload 2 drill I slowed down quite a bit, average somewhere around 2.6 or 2.7 which seems like a lot for 2 additional shots but it was what it was. I was using lead bullets for the bulk of the practice session and it was an indoor range so things got a little cloudy at times. I had to really focus on driving home two good shots or like I said - there'd be an outside C or possibly a D. I know I'm not where I was, but all in all it went pretty well. Last thing - I have been involved in multiple discussions about reloading in this forum and having gone from "pretty dang good at it" to "Haven't done this in a long time" I realized a couple of things. I can tell you all that the secret to a scorching reload is feel and fearlessness. You can't look for what you want to see or it won't be fast. I've always said I look at the base of the mag well to burn a load but now I realize that isn't true. I look at the base of the mag well for consistent 1 second loads. If I want a sub .95 or so I have to crank it and hope I hit it. In all actuality about 20% of the time this works out and the load is a burner. About 40% of the time its a standard 1 second load, and about 40% of the time they end up fubar. With the "look for the mag well" deal I consistently hit 1.0 or 1.1 second loads with vary little variance, and very few catastophies. Since I am relearning what I know - I thought it appropriate to correct all some of the posts I have made in the past. Anyhow - any input on these drills would help me benchmark and know what I need to work for. First match is this weekend in Alpena. I'm pretty pumped! JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 Sounds like you times are pretty good to me. My 2 and 2's are always slower than my 1 and 1. I think this is because the timing of when you drop the mag is quicker when you do a 1 and 1. My reload times always slow down on multiple shot drills. I feel solid if I hover at 2 seconds +/- .05 for 1 and 1 and 2.5 +/- .05 for 2 and 2. But i don't put too much effort into standing reloads and draws because it doesn't seem like we use them a whole lot these days. I would rather spend .1 extra and get it every time than try to blaze one that I might miss in a match. The math doesn't make blazing speedshoots worth taking much of a risk in a match because you might gain 2 points, but you could lose 20 easy. My 2 cents would be to stick with the solid 1.0 for matches and use the .85 reload for practice and showing off like Matt B Good luck on your match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted July 29, 2003 Author Share Posted July 29, 2003 Thanks L2S By the way - I was born in Bend. Didn't spend any time there before we moved to AK - but still a weird quinky dink. JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 j1b those times are world-class. I'm green with envy. But if you are going to Bend for the nationals, brush up on your movement and field course skills. They have had very little in the way of speed shoots and standards last year, and this year at their Area match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted July 29, 2003 Author Share Posted July 29, 2003 Eric - Definitly going to work on the whole game. Out of the gates wanted to focus on the basics though. Definitly appreciate the input. Need to find an outdoor range I can get down and dirty on - see what I can really do - actually guess I'll find out on Sunday. Also - won't be hitting the nat's this year. Better to walk before running. JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 BarnesStormer, I'm not going to let you off the hook that easy. I don't know if you can expect Burkett-like time right out of the gate...but you ought to be able to get within a tenth on the draw and another tenth on the reload (in practice). http://www.users.qwest.net/%7emburkett/weblg.mov (Might not be able to view the video...Matt has it in Quicktime 6 now, I think.) I'm not buying that, "...hope I hit it" talk either. Turn that vision up. I gotta wonder if, perhaps, you are letting the gun drop down, not keeping the gun up in front of the eyes for the reload (a common problem I have is dropping the gun too low during the reload). This one is easy enought to practice in dry-fire (draw-one, reload-one). I like doing the decreasing PAR time with it. In fact...I think I go practice now. I'll see if I can fight the tension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 By the way, at the last steel match, Steve Anderson and I reshot the match for practice (reshoots are scored as such). Anderson...for practice...was reloading to the stop plate. I saw quite a few reloads in the 1.10-1.20 range. I am pretty sure all the stop plates were round, various sizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 JB, You must come from good stock coming from Bend, sure a lot of nice folks here. Are you shooting Limited or open? Or both? One thing I would really work on getting back into it is acuracy at 20-25 yards. We have some big bays and the course designers like to use them up. I am doing a ton of practice (limited) at 25-30 yards on 10 and 6" plates. Got my draws at 1.55 on 6" steel @ 25' and focusing on seeing a perfect 1st shot. Also I am trying to shoot without having to ever stop to set-up, floating the gun and shooting from any position. I used to run to a spot shot, run to a spot shoot and I am real cutting a bunch of time just shooting when I see the shot is there. BTW I have stopped practicing hosing targets and just watching my sights and I ran one course where you draw to a 10" plate @ 20 and a USP Popper, then leave the box shoot a partial target and full target uprange 7 yards and 10 to the right, then the same another 7yards uprange and 20 0 to the left, and then 3 target another 7 yards uprange and 20 to the right with the last target upper A/B zone only. When I focused on just seeing I was running the course in the mid 7's and when I was trying to hose I was in the low 9's. My fastest run was 7.35 and I saw every shot shooting on the near dead run, down 2 points. I ran back the splits and had a couple splits in the 12's without throwing 1 double tap. IT was simply amazing to see what happens when you just trust your shooting and just shoot the targets as fast as you see the shots. "Just trust your speed" I got to remeber that one come NATS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 I think that with today's freestyle field course mentality movement is critical ---- both movement between positions and shooting on the move. The big tip from Todd's class that is paying dividends now is to do a lot of shooting past 15 yards. Knowing that I can hit the long shots translates into a lot of confidence on the typically closer stuff I see in matches.... Jack, Maybe I'm missing something here ---- but why would anyone risk a one in five reloading disaster to save .05-.15 seconds? On most stages you're reloading on the move; on the ones where you're doing a static reload can you really afford the second that a blown reload has gotta cost you? I'm thinking a guaranteed successful one second load is terrific. If there's a flaw in my logic, please educate me ---- even if I won't "get" the answer for another class or two.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 On the ultra fast draws and reloads...my take: Around a second, or .9X on the draw is a good match goal with the exception of a real close starting target. On the reload, I believe any reload that hits without seeing the magwell is luck. If I ever hit .8X reloads without looking, I'm gonna start buying lottery tickets on the way to the match. Now...I have needed to so some of both with very little VI (visual input) to convince myself that I can do it. Once I establish that I CAN do a .7X draw on a 3 yard target (best ever is a.72) then I start looking for more VI. I feel a little weird giving you advice here...but I have come to believe that i just have to shoot and reload what I see. In practice, I go both ways. Last night I did a bunch of draw, 1, reload 1 in dry fire as a tension check. I got that down to 1.4 and was seeing a red streak on the first shot, a flash of silver mag well, and a perfect dot on the last shot. I had to work up to that...when I started, I saw nothing. At the steel match Flex referenced, the best one I did was the first one. Of course, I started trying... SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 BTW, I just noticed Sam's signature line, very appropriate: It is better to be lucky. But I would rather be exact. Then when luck comes, you are ready. - Ernest Hemingway SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted July 29, 2003 Author Share Posted July 29, 2003 Thanks for the advice guys - I'm going to work on the basics and then work up - I gotta build my foundation. I do believe there was some confusion on my point about reloading (perhaps its because I can't articulate things well in writing) I am focusing on the safer road, I do think that is the way to go. As we all know, the speed will come with practice. A safe 1.1 is better than a very risky .90 - no doubt about that. I'll update as I progress. Nervous as hell about the upcoming match. JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 My...draw-one, reload-one...dry-fire peaked at about 1.6 from hand at sides (I am a bit faster on surrender). Here are some things that I noticed... DRAW: At this speed, I am pretty much "reading the sights" as I shoot off my index. I am catching a flash picture of the sights, but I am trusting my index. RELOAD: Nearly everytime I missed one (I missed the mag hole left or right...might have been too much tension here...I've have to look for that)...I missed as my eyes left the magwell a split second too soon. If I were to freeze as the mag missed, I would notice that my eyes were already looking for the target...just before the mag entered the well. Classic sports mistake. I was looking to the next thing, before the first thing was completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted July 29, 2003 Author Share Posted July 29, 2003 Yeah, I noticed the "looking up before done" phenom as well. A little of that going on as I was rattling out the double's as well. No biggie - if those are the issues then they are easy to fix. I find it interesting the phenom of practicing at longer distances - that's all we used to do. 15yrds was the shortest distance, then we worked out. Normally a lot of 15 and 20 yard targets. As I alluded to before - I'm still getting my feet on the ground so I started easy and will work my way back. Plus at an indoor range 15 yrds feels like 20 (I hate shooting indoors) I am a little puzzled by the lack of emphasis that I perceive on the basics. I always used to hit the basics - every practice session. Start out basic, work into what I intended to hit that day (movement, barricades, transitions etc. etc.) and end on basics. In a 250 round practice session, 100 rounds would be only on the basics. It was always so important to me to have the foundation. I knew if I had that I could do anything after that. TGO always used to say "anyone can draw the gun and hit a target under a second, I make sure I can do it 100 times in a row" It just emphasised that you had to have the basics down pat, then extend on those. I'm not critical - just peaked my interest a bit. JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 J1b, I think I get what you are saying, but in looking where the sport is today, I think you have to go beyond the basics. You need solid basics (that's a given) but I think that getting caught up in a .85 draw isn't where it is at. I think hitting the far targets quickly will gain me more time than blazing out an ultra fast draw or reload. Most shooters will all blaze the close targets, but the partials and no-shoots seperate the men from the boys, and when I know I can pop a 6" plate at 25 yards and shoot far targets/steel without extra shoots, I am going to inch away from the ultra fast shooters who are not as accurate. The same with shooting without having to stop, if I practice at distance, the up close stuff is a breeze, and I will shoot it fast without effort. That's my 2 cents on practicing the basics at 25 yards instead of 7 yards, I do pump out bill drills now and again just for the fun of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 Jack, It has to be a great joy to come back to shooting, and find it's all still there. Go tear it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted July 30, 2003 Author Share Posted July 30, 2003 Thanks Duane - don't know if it is all there - but I did really have a lot of fun. Deep inside I know I know how to play this game - just got to get it out. It truly feels like coming home though. I've been playing a lot of golf over the past two years and always struggle with it. So hard to get it all together. Picking up the blaster like I have over the past two weeks - just like coming home. Feels great - can't wait to see you at one of the matches. JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 Well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 I just picked up the gun for like the first time in a year and did a real serious dry fire practice session, so I know how you feel. I think I'll stick to working on the basics too. All the gamey stuff can be neat, but its the guy that can hit any target on demand that will win the day...same goes for consistant clean draws, and solid reloads...a couple of .84 reloads can't make up for a buch of blown ones...but they sure do look cool I'm approaching it from the angle that I am starting from scratch, so I'm hoping I will forget all my bad habits and start from a clean slate. Somewhere I had a post on what I believe are the basics (maybe Flex can find it) Essientially its the draw, reload, accuracy (at any distance) and transitions. Everything else revolves around getting past the stuff in a stage that tries to prevent you from accomplishing the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Well said Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Execution of the Fundamentals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 "Just trust your speed" I got to remember that one come NATS. I shoot faster with my eyes than I do with my feet. Execution of the Fundamentals. Why does it always have to be so simple? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Holy thread back from the dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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