Which Gun and Why?

[islandtime]

I have been shooting in the USPSA Limited division since March and have worked my way up to C class. I am currently shooting the following setup. I want to buy a 1911/2011 in .40 S&W and I would like to keep the cost under $2000.

Glock 35

Lonewolf ultimate trigger stop

Lonewolf competition spring kit (light weight firing pin spring, heavy trigger spring, light weight firing pin safety spring)

Dawson ICE magwell

Dawson extended basepads

Question 1:

I have been looking at the STI Eagle and the Edge. Dawson has these guns on sale for $1600-$1700. What extras would I need to completely setup these guns? Do i need the Dawson enhancement package ( or anyone esle's)?

Question 2:

What are the extra benefits of the Legend, Executive, and USPSA models. Would I also need to have these guns setup by someone?

I have compared the various features of each of the models mentioned above and they all seem to have alot of the same features with the biggest difference being whether they are blued or hard chromed and the slide look/serrations.

I am open to other suggestions (Briley, SVI, etc...) as well.

[G-ManBart]

Question 1:

I have been looking at the STI Eagle and the Edge. Dawson has these guns on sale for $1600-$1700. What extras would I need to completely setup these guns? Do i need the Dawson enhancement package ( or anyone esle's)?

Question 2:

What are the extra benefits of the Legend, Executive, and USPSA models. Would I also need to have these guns setup by someone?

For the guns mentioned you're going to need at the very least 4 140mm magazines and more is better...plan on buying good, tuned mags and spending $400 or more. You'll need a holster for whichever gun. To keep thing simple and costs reasonble without giving up any meaningful performance, get a Blade Tech DOH holster. Depending on what sort of mag pouches you have, you might need to replace those as well.

I've bought one gun from Dawson with their package (an Edge) and it ran perfectly for 5-7K and then I got a few failures to extract...put an AFTEC in it and it's been 100% since. I then purchased a Trojan .40 for Single Stack...didn't get the tuning package and sent it to Matt Mclearn for a reliability package, which costs less and probably covers more based off what I saw. I also replaced all the fire-control parts, safeties etc.

I'd say buy the gun, see if it runs and then send it to someone like Matt if you're not satisfied. Quite a few run just fine out of the box and that money can be used for more ammo. If not, you haven't lost anything....send it off and get it tuned up.

I bought those two guns and upgraded them because I'm not primarily a Single Stack or Limited guy...Open is what I shoot 90% of the time. For that I went with two full custom guns and wouldn't have it any other way.

Before I bought another stock gun I'd probably look for a really nice used, full custom gun and go that route. For the same or less money you'll get a much nicer gun. I know one person in our club just sent out a notice that he's selling a full custom STI Limited gun built by Nowlin for something like $1500 with several magazines....hard to beat that.

There is zero benefit to the Legend, Executive, USPSA models...well other than the $ that goes to USPSA with that one model. They're just cosmetic upgrades that do nothing to the underlying gun. R,

Edited September 29, 2008 by G-ManBart

[Merlin Orr]

Lots of good deals to be had with used guns. A well built gun is good for a long long time...... Keep your eyes open and be patient and you can score big....

[Jaxshooter]

If you buy a stock STI get the package from Dawson. The gun will be setup right from the start. The Executive is just a fancy Edge with hardchrome finish and a grey grip, it will need the same tweaking as the Edge. You will need 4 mags minimum to go with the gun. Holster and mag pouches is a matter of what you like best. Try some different holsters that your friends have and see what you like.

[Jman]

Welcome to the forums

Camp out on the classified forums here. Best bet in your budget area. The gun you use now is pretty fair too. It wont slow your progress any if that's a concern. $1,700 will buy you a boat load of practice ammo or components. FWIW

Jim

[austinkroe]

What is wrong with your current set-up? Do you not like shooting the Glock or are you just looking for something new?

You really do not need to have a 2011 variant to be competitive in Limited. That said I have one but I would urge you to try one out before jumping head first into them.

There are several schools of thought on how to set one up but it all boils down to personal preference. For keeping it under $2000 you may want to look at the used market. I know that to set-up the mag new runs around $100 for untuned mags. Also all of the little personal preferences add up and you may want to start cheaper so you can spend some money on things that you know you want (sights, triggers, or magwells).

I have never purchased a stock STI so I cannot give you educated advise on your first question. However, I would say that getting the enhancement package would be a good idea because it is kind of like insurance that the gun will run great when you get it. I think Brazos offers this service too. As far as extras that you "need" there are none that you have to have to compete but there would be things that you may like more that what is in the gun already but again that is all personal preference. Also the eagle v. the edge; it is all in the weight. Here you have to know what you want and how you want the gun to feel. I like the heavy guns but I am a bigger guy so you may not like them.

For the second question, I would say that the differences are cosmetic for the most part. However hard chromed guns do tend to last longer because of the wear properties of chrome.

I think your other options are to buy used or custom. I would say that custom is out of your price range and there are good deals out on the used market but be sure to ask the seller lots of questions.

Although, I do have to ask again: what is wrong with the Glock? (i think knowing why you want to change would help answer the question. I think you could spend the money on ammo and just shoot the crap out of the Glock. Don't forget that changing platforms means all new equipment (holster, mags, mag pouches, and extra parts if you so choose). Heck, don't think I am trying to get you down here I bought my 2011 just cause I liked how it looked compared to other guns that are competitive.

Good luck. I am sure many more will be by to offer their $.02

(edit: to add that I started posting before there were any responses)

Edited September 29, 2008 by austinkroe

[Rocket35]

Long answer- There are actually plenty of good deals on custom gun here in the classifieds. If you can afford to be patient one will pop up, if there isn't one already. The Legend, Executive and USPSA guns are no better than the stock Edge. Just fancier packages. It will be a tall task to get a stock 2011 gun customized with a magwell, good sights and trigger for less than $2K. Then as Chris said you need some quality magazines. When I sold my Edge, it was custom tuned from Dawson with all the trimmings and included 4 tuned mags from Dawson. I sold it all for $1850.00 if memory serves me right.

And shot less than 15K rounds through it.

Short answer- Shoot what you have now and save your money for a custom gun deal to pop up.

[bkeeler]

I recently purchased(got it in feb 2008) an STI Eagle (I prefer a little lighter gun) from Brazos w/the enhancement package,Dawson front sight. The gun has run flawless. Using stock STI mags with Dawson follower and SNL base pads. I have fired about 3000 rounds with out any problems. Bob and Ingi Londrigan are great to deal with.

http://www.brazoscustom.com/Home.htm

BK

Edited September 30, 2008 by bkeeler

[islandtime]

Thanks for the replies so far. I already have a CRSpeed inner and outer belt with CRSpeed mag pouches and WSM2 holster. The inserts in the mag puches can be switched out to fit the 2011 mags and the holster can also be reconfigured for the 2011.

The used market doesn't sound like a bad way to go. I've definitely seen some deals there today.

My main reason for changing guns is that I like the 1911 grip angle more than the Glock. I also like the idea of a heavier gun. I forgot to mention in the first post that I am using a tungsten guide rod in the G35. That has helped the muzzle flip trememdously. One of the guys in our club normally shoots Limited division with a Briley. I would say he is one of the better shooters that I have seen. Normally you don't see alot of muzzle flip when he is shooting. Long story short, I got to see him shoot his G34 in production on night and was amazed at how much muzzle flip the Glock had. This was a convincing factor for me. To see the glock flip in the hands of someone who normally has almost perfect gun control was an eye opener.

My $2000 budget is "gun only" on a new gun. I figured an extra $100 per mag into my buying budget.

Edited September 30, 2008 by islandtime

[Jman]

Muzzle flip....If I only new.

Jim

[G-ManBart]

If $2K is just for the gun, I'd say wait until you can afford/justify another $500, then call Shooter's Connection and order a Bedell...it'll be one heck of a lot more gun than any stock gun regardless of tuning and you'll be happier in the long run, but you'll have to wait a couple of months to get it. R,

[Lead slinger]

I have the STI Eagle 5.0. I have had it since Februaury. I went to Dawson Precision to pick it up personally and Dave hit a 6" steel plate at 40 yards on the first shot ever down the barrel. The gun has been flawless and accurate. Was going to get Dave to tune it but didnt have the funds at the time. I cant imagine what else he can do to it. My fiance bought the gun for me for my birthday along with range bag, CR Speed belt, (3) mag holders, CR Speed holster and (4) 140mm mags. The total price was $2,500.

I wouldnt recommend the sti mags though. I found 3 SV tuned mags from a friend that I paid $250 for. They had grams base pads. springs and followers. 2 of the mags holds 19 reloadable and 1 I can cram 20 in to start the stage with 21. I was told by a few different shooters that the SV mags are better because of the design.

[austinkroe]

I wouldnt recommend the sti mags though. I found 3 SV tuned mags from a friend that I paid $250 for. They had grams base pads. springs and followers. 2 of the mags holds 19 reloadable and 1 I can cram 20 in to start the stage with 21. I was told by a few different shooters that the SV mags are better because of the design.

I would not concur with this position. I have one SV mag and 11 STI mags. 10 of the STI mags hold 20 (5 of which are Hsmith tuned). The other 2 both hold 21 reloadable. The SV was much harder for me to tune than the STI. The SV tubes do seem to be made of a harder metal than the STI tubes. The SV tube would not drop free when I first got it and it took some work on my part to get it going right but since then it has been 100% (this may not be representative of all SV mags).

I would say that there is absolutely no problem with STI mags. They are the only ones that I will buy in the future. They can be set-up to work great and I have never had a single problem with them. If you want to forget about it you can buy pre-tuned mags. I wanted to learn how to make my own gear run so I bought some tuned mags and put the rest together myself. You can do a search on this site and learn lots about mags. Pick your tubes and use parts from Bolen, Grams, or Dawson. If you want to know what I think about setting up mags in more detail feel free to PM me.

Also, thanks for replying that your desire was a heavier gun that helps me out a bit. I would say to look at some used guns but take your time and make sure you get what you want. In the meantime maybe you an go ahead and get your mag situation sorted out and maybe even try some other people's guns to get a better feel for what you like. The Bedell idea mentioned previously is also a good one but it is a bit more than you are looking to spend. Then again there is something satisfying in knowing that a particular gun is built just for you.

[Rocket35]

USPSA classifieds:

Name: Bobby Mcgee - a44034

Email: runningbearstribe@hotmail.com

Phone: 253-380-3306

Location: Port Orchard Wa

Price: $1700.00

(price reduced) must sell BRAND NEW IN BOX HARDCHROMED STI EDGE .40 CAL NEVER BEEN FIRED, COMES WITH (1) MAG, STIPPLED BLACK GRIP AND SMOOTH 2LB trigger was $1975.00 + SHIPPING TO YOUR FFL. NOW $1700.00 this is a very good deal..

[G-ManBart]

I would not concur with this position. I have one SV mag and 11 STI mags. 10 of the STI mags hold 20 (5 of which are Hsmith tuned). The other 2 both hold 21 reloadable. The SV was much harder for me to tune than the STI. The SV tubes do seem to be made of a harder metal than the STI tubes. The SV tube would not drop free when I first got it and it took some work on my part to get it going right but since then it has been 100% (this may not be representative of all SV mags).

If you talk to a lot of the pros that tune mags many will tell you that SV tubes are better, hold their tune (feed lips etc) better and you can often get an extra round in them compared with STI tubes. 22 rounds in an SVI tube isn't impossible. With an STI tube it's pretty close to impossible.

As far as the tubes dropping free, a lot of that is the newer run of STI grips. You have to remove a bit of material from inside the grip and after that it won't be an issue.

I've got a small stack of each for both .40 and .38SC and won't be buying any STI tubes in the future based upon what I've seen. I'll take a little extra trouble tuning them to get an extra round of capacity or a much easier reload at the same capacity and less issues with them turning into salt shakers if you get the rounds below the bottom of the ribs on STI tubes...that's absolutely no fun at all.

That's not to say that STI tubes are bad, but their quality control isn't all that great. I have one "tuned" Dawson mag that won't hold 18 rounds no matter what parts I put in it and the other two purchased at the same time held 19 and later 20 with Grams springs and followers...I've yet to see such a disparity in SV tubes. R,

[austinkroe]

As far as the tubes dropping free, a lot of that is the newer run of STI grips. You have to remove a bit of material from inside the grip and after that it won't be an issue.

The contact was actually with the frame. The width of the body near the feed lips was too wide and was wedging itself to the metal frame in order to lock in. neither the frame nor the grip were newer than three years old. I also could not get a basepad on the tube so I had to work there as well. My one encounter with the SV mags was not great and I feel they did not warrant the extra money spent. That said the SV tube I have is a very easily reloadable 21 and I think that someone with more knowledge could get it to hold 22. I love the mag but I had to do more work and it was harder than any of the STI mags I have. That siad I think both companies produce some great mags and I would happily use either one but I go with STIs because they cost less and I find them easy for me to tune at home. I have one from each company that holds 21 and I do not feel the need to get one to go to 22 (too much cash for me).

I am just putting this out there so islandtime can get both sides of the story. I have heard of bad experiences with both companies mags and SV mags are extra. I just want to make sure he doesn't feel that he has to spend the extra cash on mags. STI mags run just fine and I would have no reservations about buying tubes from them again. Although, sometimes I have had to do some tweaking to get them just right, but doing some searching on this site will give you enough info to get them running just fine.

[JThompson]

Thanks for the replies so far. I already have a CRSpeed inner and outer belt with CRSpeed mag pouches and WSM2 holster. The inserts in the mag puches can be switched out to fit the 2011 mags and the holster can also be reconfigured for the 2011.

The used market doesn't sound like a bad way to go. I've definitely seen some deals there today.

My main reason for changing guns is that I like the 1911 grip angle more than the Glock. I also like the idea of a heavier gun. I forgot to mention in the first post that I am using a tungsten guide rod in the G35. That has helped the muzzle flip trememdously. One of the guys in our club normally shoots Limited division with a Briley. I would say he is one of the better shooters that I have seen. Normally you don't see alot of muzzle flip when he is shooting. Long story short, I got to see him shoot his G34 in production on night and was amazed at how much muzzle flip the Glock had. This was a convincing factor for me. To see the glock flip in the hands of someone who normally has almost perfect gun control was an eye opener.

My $2000 budget is "gun only" on a new gun. I figured an extra $100 per mag into my buying budget.

My advice would be to ask some of the guys to shoot theirs... They will be happy to let you do so and it will tell you a lot more than watching one. Shoot everything you can get your hands on and then make a decision.

Gun budget looks fine, mag budget might be a littlelow, but with some of deals you can find, some of thr gun can go toward mags.

[waktasz]

USPSA classifieds:

Name: Bobby Mcgee - a44034

Email: runningbearstribe@hotmail.com

Phone: 253-380-3306

Location: Port Orchard Wa

Price: $1700.00

(price reduced) must sell BRAND NEW IN BOX HARDCHROMED STI EDGE .40 CAL NEVER BEEN FIRED, COMES WITH (1) MAG, STIPPLED BLACK GRIP AND SMOOTH 2LB trigger was $1975.00 + SHIPPING TO YOUR FFL. NOW $1700.00 this is a very good deal..

That is a pretty killer deal.

Speaking of the classifieds...could someone PM me the current USPSA members area password? I only just renewed my membership after about 3 years out of the game and haven't received my magazine yet. Got my card with PIN number, but that's no good without the magazine password.

[VegasOPM]

I have to agree with JThompson. I decided that my GLOCK 22 that I had tarted up wasn't good enough, so I bought a tuned Eagle- and I hated it. Now I had a gun that I spent $1600 for that I didn't like. I turned it for what I had into it, but I wish that I tried it first. I went back to the GLOCK and made it to "B" with minimal mods- mag well, 3.5# GLOCK connector, extended mag release and Dawson base pads.

[islandtime]

Well, after a 3 month delay ( out of town working on Hurricane Ike repairs to Exxon in Beaumont) I finally found a deal on a used gun that I couldn't pass up. Several of the guys in our local club were quick to show me thier finds that I missed while I was gone and working 7/12's. The past 3 months have offered up some great deals.....I ws just too busy to notice.

Thanks to everyone that responded to my earlier post. I still have a couple of questions. The gun that I purchased is an SVI that comes with 2 Dawson tuned mags. I know that i will need more than 2 so I am looking at buying 4 new mags. I am split between the following options:

1. Dawson tuned 4 mag set with tool-less basepads.

2. Brazos tuned 4 mag set with the same Dawson tool-less basepads.

3. Buy the mags, grams kits, and Dawson basepads myself and put them all together.

Also is it best to go with the non slide lockback type of setup.