XRe Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 As the shooter you won't see the flames during the day. I beg to differ!!!! I find them distracting, other folks don't. YMMV... The interesting thing is that some guns do it, and some guns don't. It doesn't seem to be a universal issue with the powder itself.... But if your gun does it, it'll probably do it with a lot of things... (3N37 notably)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 (edited) OK I got enough light today when the rain finally quit to chrono some loads. Both guns are 5". Trubor AVG - 1308 ES - 39.12 SD - 15.13 PF - 162 Millenium Custom (with 2 poppel holes) AVG - 1258 ES - 49.34 SD - 16.18 PF 156 I think with 9.6gr I can get the Trubor to major, but it will take 9.8 to get the MC to major. So I'm going to load some more and try again. ETA: Load is 9.3gr 3N38 with MG 124gr JHP loaded to 1.235" COAL in once fired Starline .38SC brass. Edited January 28, 2009 by kgunz11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I think with 9.6gr I can get the Trubor to major, but it will take 9.8 to get the MC to major. So I'm going to load some more and try again.ETA: Load is 9.3gr 3N38 with MG 124gr JHP loaded to 1.235" COAL in once fired Starline .38SC brass. Sounds about right for the Trubor, but you might be looking more like 10.0-10.2 for the MC gun. My data showed about 1.5 PF per tenth for 3N38 pretty reliably Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 SV IMM 38 SC 10.1 gr 3N38 125 gr Zero JHP 1.235 OAL WSRP Starline Brass 2-3 loadings 170 PF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 OK I'll load some at 10.0gr also and see where that gets me. Will report back when I have some data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trodrig Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I've got a pound of this on the way with the rest of my order. But, I'll be using 115 MG JHP's. Based on the above data in a Trubore, do ya'll think I should start at around 9.5 to 9.8 and work up from there in my Trubore? Should I start lower? Higher? Thanks! Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I've got a pound of this on the way with the rest of my order. But, I'll be using 115 MG JHP's. Based on the above data in a Trubore, do ya'll think I should start at around 9.5 to 9.8 and work up from there in my Trubore? Should I start lower? Higher?Thanks! Thomas You should be fine starting around 9.5gr with a 115gr bullet. 3N38 is quite slow, fills up most of the case and you'd have to work to get to the point where you'd hurt something. I tried 10gr with MG 121 IFPs in my Bedell shorty and averaged 1475fps for a PF of 178...no pressure signs. I backed it down to 9.5gr and averaged 1409 for a PF of 169.9. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 The lot that I tested looks to be about half a grain slower than Chris' - I tested 10.6 w/ a Win 115 JHP, and got 161.8 PF. Still seemed to be 1.5-ish PF per tenth, so I figured I'd need 11.0-11.2 - you're probably fine even starting at 10.0, and I'd expect that to be barely Major, if that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 (edited) The lot that I tested looks to be about half a grain slower than Chris' - I tested 10.6 w/ a Win 115 JHP, and got 161.8 PF. Still seemed to be 1.5-ish PF per tenth, so I figured I'd need 11.0-11.2 - you're probably fine even starting at 10.0, and I'd expect that to be barely Major, if that... Interesting. With a MG 115gr JHP and 10.0gr I got an 1468fps one day and 1477 a couple days later...168.8pf and 169.8pf. I also tested with MG 115gr CMJ's and got essentially the same numbers. Those were out of my Bedell which doesn't have any popple holes. I still have some left...lot 798-04, with a date of 4-21-04. Maybe it was aged to perfection? I have some that's newer 4/07 but haven't tested it yet. Doing the math I got pretty much 1.5-1.6pf per tenth with my 121gr loads....in line with what you found. R, Edited January 29, 2009 by G-ManBart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 My stuff was newer - '07 vintage, I think? Don't have any of it anymore. Seems like the older stuff is hotter - at least, that's been the case with N350, 3N38, and N105 for me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 My stuff was newer - '07 vintage, I think? Don't have any of it anymore. Seems like the older stuff is hotter - at least, that's been the case with N350, 3N38, and N105 for me... Oh great, now I'm going to have to load some with my newer lot to compare....the list just keeps getting longer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trodrig Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Thanks for the info guys! I'll try starting at 10. It takes about 10.4 of N105 to make major with the same bullet in my gun. Should take a touch less with 3n38 right? Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Thanks for the info guys! I'll try starting at 10. It takes about 10.4 of N105 to make major with the same bullet in my gun. Should take a touch less with 3n38 right?Thomas That's about what I've seen, but my 3N38 was old and my N105 is new so it could be off a touch based on Dave's experience. It takes 10.7gr of N105 with a MG 115gr JHP in my Bedell (my MC only needs 10.5gr) to get me right around 170pf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Say you had a bowl, and were bored, and saw a can of 3n-38, and had some thoughts...... How much will physically fit in a 38SC case with the scoop and scrape method? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Say you had a bowl, and were bored, and saw a can of 3n-38, and had some thoughts......How much will physically fit in a 38SC case with the scoop and scrape method? Just tried it....thanks for making me get up from my comfy chair With a new nickel starline 38SC case I got 12.2gr with the scoop and scrape method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Thanks Bart, that chair exercise (even though you were evidently bored ) earns a cold beer at some point!! 12.2 means I can get 10+ in a 9mm case and have a chance at making major. 3n38 has been hard to get until recently around here so I haven't had a chance to play with it, but it is the LAST powder I will play with in 9mm major until something significant changes. I was able to seat 115's on 9.8 of N105 in 9mm and have them stay in the case all the way to the range, incredibly soft but loud 163 PF in my gun LOL. 3n-37 doesn't leave anything to be desired other than knowledge for the sake of knowledge and something new to try, if you can take the noise. At least that is my observation so far without trying 3n-38. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Hey, found some other data... I needed 11.0 to make 170 PF w/ a Win 115. Bear in mind, that's a .355 bullet... A .356 bullet will require a little less, typically. As far as comparisons between 3N38 and N105, it depends on lot. An older lot of N105 compared to the '07 vintage 3N38, used less N105 to make the same PF. Current '08 vintage N105 takes a tad more than the '07 3N38. In terms of charge weight, the powders are pretty close to one another for me. They differ in density, though, and pressure curves. N105 isn't quite as clean, either, but 3N38 was never the cleanest powder in my guns, either. 3N38 has seen some use in Major 9 - do a search, Howard You want soft and really really LOUD? Play with 2400 in Super... I couldn't even get to 160 PF, but damn, it was LOUD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al503 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 12.2 means I can get 10+ in a 9mm case and have a chance at making major. 3n38 has been hard to get until recently around here so I haven't had a chance to play with it, but it is the LAST powder I will play with in 9mm major until something significant changes. It takes about 9.6 of 3n38 to make major in my shorty with 4 small poppleholes. You really have to slow down on the indexing and 'catch' each case before it moves into the seating station (1050). I usually use SP2, cause I got a good supply of it but 3n38 might be a touch softer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Thanks Dave. My gun doesn't make pressure like most 9's, not even with really high power factors. That is my concern with being able to make major. I cannot physically fit enough 3n-37 in the case with a 115 to even begin flattening a Federal small pistol primer for example, HS-6 was well into the 190's PF with a 115 and no flow on the primer at all. Thanks for the info Al, I'll get some and play this spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Thanks Dave. My gun doesn't make pressure like most 9's, not even with really high power factors. What'd you do, throat it 3" deep?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Ancient Chinese secret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Ancient Chinese secret. Your new nickname is "Deep Throat" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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