jgobbels Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 I'm still trying to decide if the used open gun I purchased was shot out. At 10 yards the group from a sand bag rest is about 1" as I expected. When I move out to 20 Yards the group spreads out to 3-4" and is about 4 inches high. (Should the group be this high at 10 yards more?) The gun is an SVI Hybridcomp in .38 super with a c-more that looks a bit ragged. As a comparison I shot my Limited .45 SVI/Wilson and my groups were the same out to 20 yards.. About 1/2 - 1"... Both guns had a 10yard zero.. Let me know if its just me or I should have the gun looked at. Thanks in advance. John~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 Firstly, its pointless to sight an open gun at 10 yds...particularily a C-More sighted gun. 25 yds is better. I forget the exact crossover of the bullet path to the sightline, but yes it could make it print that high. If it is shooting 4" at 20 yds, thats not good. Is this your first Open gun? Some have trouble adapting to the dot at first and can shoot more accurate with Iron sights...it just takes longer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgobbels Posted July 20, 2003 Author Share Posted July 20, 2003 Pat, Thanks for the reply. It is my first open gun, but I would think a supported pistol at 20 yards Open or not should be able to shoot better than a 4" group? I can understand an open gun being different while going at it in a match or practice, but this is rested on a bench with sand bags. I guess I'll have a smith take a look at it just to make sure. JG~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 It depends on the dot size of the C-more and what exactly is your POA. It can vary a lot if the dot is to big and you are holding to a different point. Have an experienced open shooter try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshua Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 How many different types of handloads have you tried through your open gun. Don't get depressed if you only tried one load and it gave you 4" at the mentioned range. I have 2 open guns, the Limcat top end gun (2nd top end on one of my frame) printed 1" at 50 yards for 5 shots, and 19 rounds out of one mag shot at slow pace benched went to a ragged 2" group. Nice accuracy with .3565 or .357 38 super bullets at 115 grain type. If I try to shoot .355 bullets with the same powder load I will get 4 to 5 inch groups at 50 yards, still not bad right? But it proves that a certain gun will favor certain loads. Try a different bullet or powder, brass combo before you get dismayed. Is the gun still built tight. josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgobbels Posted July 20, 2003 Author Share Posted July 20, 2003 Joshua, I only have tried one load at this time and will try some different combinations with the gun. The frame to slide fit seems tight, but I do have some movement of the Hybra comp barrel left to right within the slide. Not much, but I can grab the comp and get a little movement. Chriss, Not sure of the dot size as it was used when I purchased it (No paperowrk with the gun about the c-more). I did notice that the dot is not completly round. It seems to have a small area thats a bit ragged on one side. I was wondering if the c-more could be bad? It does seem a bit beat?????? Thanks, John~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 What is your load ( I should have asked before) the SVI barrel in that should have the gain twist rifling. It can be very picky about loads. I have one as well. Found that truncated cone (Like Hornandy TJ 124gr bullets) or 124 gr hollowpoints work well...roundnose do not. 124 gr seem to be the best. Matt Burkett has probably tried most combos in that gun, hopefully he can chime in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgobbels Posted July 20, 2003 Author Share Posted July 20, 2003 Load is Hornady XTP 115 JHP (.355) 8.5 VV-N350 Federal Small Rifle Primer Rem Nickle Cases The first owner told me to use Sierra 115g JHP as that is what he used in the gun, but I have not tried them yet. I did notice that the Hornady 115 XTP just made major (165.8 pf with 8.5g), where as the Sierra had no problem making it according to the first owner (170 pf with the same amount of V V). I am wondering if the Hornady is a bit smaller than the Sierra, thus not sealing and loosing power and also not obtaining the same level of accuracy as Josh stated above with a larger round. The gun has a 3 port barrel and a 6 port comp. Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 The bullet is most likely the problem. I tried the .355 hornady fully encapsulated bullets when I got the new open gun with the tribrid. The velocity was all over as the barrel heated up. Switch to a .356 bullet as that is what Wil Schuemann recommends in his .355 barrels. I haven't had the problems Pat had with round nose bullets. I'm running the .356 124 Star FMJ's. My gun feeds them and shoots them great. C-more's are pretty damn hard to kill and if you do they are good about fixing them. If I remember right the dot size shoud be marked on the bottom of the dot module. You have to take it out to check though. 6 MOA is about the best all around dot size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgobbels Posted July 20, 2003 Author Share Posted July 20, 2003 Chriss, Thanks for the reply. Well, anyone need 2000 Siera 115 JHP's in .355 ? I'll try loading the Sierra and see how they work, then switch to the .356 and note the results. JG~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 On the dot not looking pretty and round...might just need to clean the "projector screen". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liota Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 Load is Hornady XTP 115 JHP (.355)8.5 VV-N350 Federal Small Rifle Primer Rem Nickle Cases I am running almost that exact load in my gun and it loves it. I use .1 grain more of VV N-350, Montana Gold 115 9mm JHP, Federal Small Rifle Primers and Starline 9 SuperComp brass. You may want to try the Montana Golds in your Scheumann barrel. They work great in mine. At A4, the above combination made 173 PF. Liota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Good luck with the bigger bullets, they should help. You might want to check that your hammer (main) spring is either factory power or extra power. It seems to help get a consistent lock up on old guns (like mine). My Super is 8 years old and rattles quite a bit - with the hammer back. With the hammer down it feels much more solid & still shoots 1.5" at 25 yards. Try different aiming points. I get good results with just centering the dot on a white paper plate - the small ones for dessert (mmm, cake, mmm...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgobbels Posted July 23, 2003 Author Share Posted July 23, 2003 I shot the gun again tonight and the results were the same. The first group was 1" and then they went all over the place. It seems as the barrel heats up the gun looses it. I'm going to try the .356 and then I guess I need to have the gun looked at. What are my options? Send it back to SV? Have a new Barrel put in? Any help would be appreciated.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 I did notice that the dot is not completly round. This can also be caused by your eyes having some astigmatism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshua Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Go ahead and load the .356 bullets, but still bring some of those .355 loads and have someone you know, that can shoot an SV/S+I type of 1911 really good, shoot it for a couple of groups. I got used to the grip on my Caspian hi-caps and when I shot my Para Limited gun (square feel on the grip) my groups weren't anything to brag about. But now, I can shoot 2 to 3 inch groups at 25 yards with it off hand. Go figure... sometimes it takes a while before we get the right grip on the gun. If there is some horizontal or vertical play with the hammer being in the down position, then maybe the barrel is worn. With our open guns, if the lugs are that beat up I can only think how beat up the lead on the rifling of the barrel-that's if the last owner took care not to drop the slide on an empty chamber every time he dry fires. You might also need to check the comp if the bullets are hitting it, if the comp was locked in place with locktite it might be out of alignment, I usually use cold weld or JB weld to lock the comp in place then have a comp reamer ran through it just to make sure. I had an open gun that had a long comp, and will have accuracy problems when the gun heats up. I had the comp reamed 2x and it checked out fine. Kept having lousy accuracy when the gun heats up specially during the summer. I ended up replacing the comp on that open gun and all of the sudden my groups were more consistent even with the gun running hot. I think the old comp had some type of memory in the metal and when the comp heated up it sprung just slightly just to know the bullet out of course. Keep investigating and experimenting. josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgobbels Posted July 23, 2003 Author Share Posted July 23, 2003 George, My other 2 C-more railways on the shotgun and AR look fine. I'll switch the dot module out and see if that helps. John~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgobbels Posted July 24, 2003 Author Share Posted July 24, 2003 Josh, Thanks for all the insight. I'll keep you posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Hello, With my Open Gun, I get 0.5" groups at 50 yards. A lot of that is my gunsmith, but too is the ammo. Rusty Kidd built the gun and while it took some time, it is my second Viper and love it to death. It's got about 20,000 rounds through it and is as tight and accurate as the day I got it (just runs better now). In any case, I sight the gun in at 25 yards. My load is VV N350 (8.0 grains I think), with a 124gr. Montana Gold CMJ. The complete metal jacket on the bullet is much more accurate than an FMJ and yet gives me a feed/reliability benefit over a JHP (especially if you tumble your ammo) by being a round nosed bullet. Just my two Lincolns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Oops. Knew that I forgot something. Chris is right on the dot size. I switch between a 4 MOA and 6 MOA dot (depending on how my eyes are tracking the dot during practice before a match). Also, if you're getting a star burst, start with cleaning everything on the scope (i.e. the lens the diode, etc.). If after that you still have a bit of a "starburst" it's usually the diode. The good news is that you can buy another one and they're relatively inexpensive. The bad news is that there are good diodes and bad ones. Outside of going to C-More and finding a couple that you like (which I've been told that some folks do) it's pretty much luck of the draw. The sights are great though and I haven't doubted the decision once to use it in lieu of a tube or other heads up scope. Lastly follow George's advice and have your eyes checked. I have/had astigmatism (spelling?) and somehow am slowly growing out of it and I've seen an improvement in what I see while I'm shooting. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgobbels Posted August 22, 2003 Author Share Posted August 22, 2003 Changed to Zero 125g .356 and what an improvement. Groups at 25 yards are now within 2" and I'm happy with the performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dream Posted August 26, 2003 Share Posted August 26, 2003 have you looked at the comp i had the same problem with a open gun the comp had carbon built up that i could not see and after the second or third shot the bullets seemed to scatter just a thought dream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Dream brings up another great point. With my first open gun, it had somewhere around 50,000 rounds on it. One day I took it out for accuracy and it wasn't hitting plates at 15 yards. Sure enough, there was 50,000 rounds of junk in the comp. Once cleaned out, everything was back to normal. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgobbels Posted August 27, 2003 Author Share Posted August 27, 2003 Thanks for the help guy's. The .356 made a huge difference and I also cleaned the comp so it may be a bit of both. Thanks again, John~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary meyer Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 USCBIGDAWG..............YOUR GUN SHOOTS HALF INCH GROUPS AT 50 YARDS! ARE YOU USING A SNIPER SCOPE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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