Ironman Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 I was at an IPSC match this weekend when I messed up. The stage was set up where you started sitting on a three wheeler hands on the bars. Engage two paper targets move 10 foot upstage and engage in 4 more paper targets and four poppers. Here is where I blew it, you then had to retreat 10 feet to get around a wooden deck. I did OK and kept the gun downrange until I turned to make the corner to get around the deck, for a second maybe two the barrel of my gun broke the 180-degree rule. To add insult to injury there were two guys that had setup their chairs there and were watching the match. I was also doing a clip change on the move and guess I just got myself into input overload. I heard the crowd making noise about it but did not realize what I had done. The CRO did not tell me to cease-fire so I finished the COF. Once I finished the CRO told me what I had done. I went over to the two guys and told them I was sorry. One of them said “you should be” I felt like shit. I am very safe when I shoot and take pride in conveying that safe shooting practice to all of my sons and many new shooters that we have taken to the range. Just before I started the stage a well know shooter in the squad before us did the same thing. Some said it was poor stage design but I take total responsibility for my actions and should have been paying more attention to safety. I guess a lesson to learn is that speed is always second to safety. I will do my best never to make this mistake again. Oh, by the way my youngest son was there filming the match for me and so now I have this on tape so I can review it again and again and again… Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyaboutguns Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Jim: Good man to accept responsibility for the gun's position. Nonetheless, if the stage design was such as to induce breaking the 180, them the stage was indeed deficient. As to persons electing to position themselves at, or near the 180 position, and the R.O.(s) that allowed them to do so, they are no less errroneous in their action(s), and failure(s) to act, respectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironman Posted July 13, 2003 Author Share Posted July 13, 2003 crazyaboutguns, Thank you for your responce. I think there were alot of thing to be learned from my mistake. You bring up good points that I will take into consideration when I am worthy of being an RO. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davecutts Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Well I was on the squad behind Jim that was waiting, and watching, and the two dudes sitting are my buddies, and they were not on the 180 line, but a good twenty plus degrees past. And I'm not sure about this bad course design yes the ATC was facing the right, however you chose to go to the right first fallowed by a slow back peddle, and a reload while moving to the left. After which you had to run around the gallows and approach a shooting port at an acute angle. While I watched the couple of guys ahead of you I wondered why everyone was getting up going to the right side first, and right before you shot John (shooting production) went to the left first, and shot the whole thing much smother with out the risk of a 180. Some times we are lenient with the DQing a buddy, but dude you BROKE the 180 big time. I've only DQed one person (but have seen a lot of ... DQable offences), and I would have shut you down, oh and I'm not a CRO like the gentleman ROing you. I don't want anyone to think this is a flame, I just wanted to present a spectators view, but that is ment to be a little slam onthe RO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironman Posted July 14, 2003 Author Share Posted July 14, 2003 Hi davecutts, I take no offence at your comments as a matter of fact if others were there I am still trying to figure it all out. Unfortunately my sons filming has my back to the camera when I make the curve behind the gallows after I passed the corner we could see my pistol was down range with the barrel pointed up. So it must have been just as I came to the corner of the gallows. Seeing that I am new I kind of watch how the other guys shoot the stage and try to mirror that. As you said most people went left to right and I agree it I had it all to do again I would shoot it right to left. I noticed that other shooters after me that started on the right side held their guns, sometimes with one hand, definitely pointing down range (another lesson learned). As far as the DQ if I got one I agree that I deserved it, I did make a mistake. On another note John was very nice about explaining what I had done and how to not do it again. One of your friend on the other hand was just plain rude. I guess I could excuse that because after all he was looking down the barrel of a gun just minute’s prior which is enough to get anyone on edge. Once again thanks for your comments and when you see your friends next time tell them that I am truly sorry and I will do everything in my power never to let that happen again. I have never been DQ'd and have been shooting in different compititions for over two years. After the next stage I quit for the day with stage 1 and 2 still left to go. Thanks, Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davecutts Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 hey man I understand, and yes I bet Mr. C.may have been little rude, but he would have given it to any of us that way. John is definatly a stand up guy and I over heard him talking to you under the shade. He's right we're all friends out there, and s#$t happens, we heard this a couple of times Saturday, "...there are shooters that will get DQ (or have an AD), and those that will get DQed (have an AD) again..." and just to show I'm a humble guy, here's me braking the 180, and I think I hit the no shoot if I remember right. http://god-damn.net/images/Ipsc/Video/Dave002.MPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Jim, thanks for sharing. I've heard the "muzzle" call twice - and both times it was when I chose to go right to left. I am much more careful and aware of that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironman Posted July 14, 2003 Author Share Posted July 14, 2003 Thanks guys, when this happened I thought to myself "if you cannot do this sport safely then maybe you should not be competing". Your comments help me think my mistake through and the experience has taught me to look at different things when I walk the stage to decide the best COF. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madone Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 just to show I'm a humble guy, here's me braking the 180, and I think I hit the no shoot if I remember right.http://god-damn.net/images/Ipsc/Video/Dave002.MPG Hey Dave, thanks for sharing. your video. When do you actually break the 180....was it when you were leaving the 2nd target array? What exactly happened, did you just point the gun past the 180, or did you take the turn to sharply coming out from behind the array? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davecutts Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 When do you actually break the 180....was it when you were leaving the 2nd target array? What exactly happened, did you just point the gun past the 180, or did you take the turn to sharply coming out from behind the array? I break the 180 not on the second array, but on the third, just as I'm passing the no shoot I twist back and take another shot on the close right target preceding the no shoot. The RO didn't stop me, but you can see me look around at him and smile as I finish the third array, before I walked through the rest of the stage. You can also hear the squad heckling me right after I do it. It would have been a smoking run too. Everyone else on our squad had stopped at the orange mesh and shot the four targets standing still then ran up. I probably would have beaten everyone in our squad, well blah blah blah, who freaking cares. I messed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBS1911 Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 This is for Ironman and Davecutts. In your description of the events that happened, you said the Ro did not stop you when the offense happened but after you finished the stage. In my opinion that is a fault on the RO. If he saw a DQ'able offense happen he should have stopped you right then. I would have expected that if I were sitting on the sidelines and someone broke the 180 with a gun. I also would not have made the comment that the spectator made for the fact that if he is also a shooter and he should get DQ'ed the same comments might fall upon him. Just my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 Since some of the people responding to this thread were actually there it make it harder to second guess what happened, but there are some points to be made here. Got to know where the 180 is and be super careful not to break it. Spectator seating might have been a bit suspect. RO should have stopped the action when the offense occured Contestant feels badly enough w/o spectator comments Remember, it is part of the sport. Don't dwell on it, move on and get 'em next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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