Buying used

[olp73]

The other day someone offered me to buy a “full house” limited gun build on a para “gun smith” frame. The owner is a member of our club and I have confidence in him. The gun is used but, appears as new. I know he built it from scratch because he wanted an all steel more “classic” looking gun, radar than saving money. The gun is in 40sw, hard chromed, has checkerd front strap and is mostly build on STI parts. It also has a bull barrel and a tungsten guide rod.

Later I will get the “shooting log” and a detailed list of the parts used to build the gun. I also know the gunsmith who built it. He has a good reputation.

My main questions are: Is this an outdated platform? I see most people shoot STI/SVI these days. Does it have weaknesses compared to these guns? And compared to an S_I gun is it possible to say something about value? If I want to modify something later, is this difficult when the gun is chromed?

Anything else I should be aware of or think about before I decide?

Edited July 25, 2008 by olp73

[Al Capizzo]

If the gun is built right and the price is fair, I wouldn't hesitate. I personally like the Para platform, shot one in .40 for several years before going to Open. There aren't many shooters shooting either Para or Caspian, the two steel frame platforms for our game, but those who do are usually happy and aren't giving anything up to anybody.

[Johann the Horrible]

I myself shoot a Para-kit gun and I feel that the system is superior. If the gun is well built and you feed it halfway decent ammo it just runs and runs. I run BullM5 mags in my gun as they take more rounds but you have to change the mag-release to make it work. The guys shooting 40`s in my club get 20 rounds in a mag this way. In South Africa the Para frames are sought after and few top shooters go for the STI/SVI platform.

If the guy is asking an acceptable price my advice is to go for it. There is a trad around here asking how many guys stuck to their Para guns and you would be surprised just how long there guns last. Mine started out as a 45 ans ten went to 38 Super Race gun. When Standard Division came in in went back to 45 and when my things come together I will get a 40 top end for it. The frame has done at least 1000K rounds in mostly 38Super.

The last mod I did was to fit a heavy "full length" dustcover to the gun, you can do that as it gets silver soldered and the frame is metal. I am not saying that you have to do this, its just nice to have the option. For me it works very well.

To have the gun re-chromed is not difficult, you just need to have it de-plated before it gets re-plated. That is something the plating shop doing the plating should be able to do.

[chirpy]

I have and compete with 2 Paras and find the balance is better for me than the others available. My smith tuned the mags using stock Para parts and they keep going and going. It seems the price is right and you are satisfied - Go for it!

Richard

[Jim Watson]

Surely he would let you shoot it some, maybe for a whole match.

If it works and you like it, buy it.

If it does not work, don't accept excuses.

If you don't like it, don't convince yourself that you will get used to it.

Hand it back and walk away.

That is the only assurance you have, there is no guarantee or "customer service" on a second hand parts gun.

[olp73]

I have tried to post some pictures for you regarding the gun at hand but I just can’t make it work. Actually I think there is some kind of technical problems on Enos server. Tried 3 different PCs now, home and at work. That is a pity because the gun is a real looker.

I have some questions regarding owning, maintaining and customizing Paras. The last days I have tied to get an overview of what is available of parts/accessories and it seams to be pretty limited.

This Para has some special fetchers that I would like to discuss with you. The owner has installed a 10 millimeters (0,4”) tungsten guide rod to ad weight up front in addition to a bull barrel. This seams like a god idea to me, but the gun is quite heavy as it is. If I am not mistaken the guide rode is so thick that is requires a larger then standard diameter reversed plug and subsequently milling of the slide to make it all come together. I guess that this makes it difficult to go back to a more standard setup.

It also has a Smith/Alexander magwell. I thought that an aluminum- magwell and mainspring housing could compensate a little for the total weight but I am not sure were to find these parts. (where do you buy them?)The frame has to be cut, right, for the SA-well to fit? I would also like to change the trigger, maybe for a composite one. The one in the gun has a special cut ache to fit the owner’s finger.

It also has come to my knowledge that it is possible to us S_I magazines but that this requires a special mag. button? Or do you modify the original?

How many rounds can actually you get in a 40 para mag? Does a S_I hold mag hold more? And who makes aftermarket mag parts for Paras? (springs, pads and followers?

PS: this gun has to fit the IPSC standard box. IPSC Standard class PF is 170.

Any thoughts?

[Joe4d]

there are tungstun rods and plugs on the market that are the same size as stock but if yours is some kinda custom oversize you may be stuck. The full S&A magwell is a permanent change to the frame so no going back to a Dawson. The Big aluminum Dawsons wont fit in the box anyway and require magazines pads too big to work. I switched my Para to a S&A funnel and flat pads specifically so it would fit the IDPA box which I believe is the same size as the IPSC box. It sounds like the gun has had a few permanent non reversible or very expensive to reverse features you dont like. You should probably not buy it. There are some STI mag work arounds but there really isnt any point. Stock magazines, Wolff springs and stock followers, combined with Dawson or CPMI aluminum pads are the most reliable andd will give you the most capacity. I got 20 rounds out of 140mm mags just putting the Dawson pads on. STI mags need tuning and tweaking to get 20 reloadable. I imagine the same tuning could increase Para capacity. I do understand your using shorter mags.

[buddy_fuentes]

I'm not trying to cut you short, but it seems to me that you are asking questions that should be asked of the gunsmith that built the gun. You may have less opportunity to purchase parts in your country than we do. Something that may be available here may be difficult for you or your gunsmith to obtain. He may have to make something that you want. You may even ask him to look the gun over and see if it is still in good shape.

I have a Para frame pin gun that has had many thousands of heavy pin loads through it and it is still a tack driver and very dependable. The gun you are looking at is probably a great gun and will last you a very long time.

Good Luck, Buddy

[kimberacp]

I just bought a used Para 40, with a SA magwell. I have a SV but always wanted a steel frame Limited gun. Getting some trigger done to it now but I think it will work out very well. BTW...just modified the mag catch to work with the SV mags I already have! Saved alot of money

[olp73]

At last I got the pictures uploaded after shrinking them considerably, never mind, they where not that good quality anyway.

[Flatland Shooter]

It also has a Smith/Alexander magwell. I thought that an aluminum- magwell and mainspring housing could compensate a little for the total weight but I am not sure were to find these parts. (where do you buy them?)The frame has to be cut, right, for the SA-well to fit?

On my para I had to trim about 1/16" off the bottom of the grip to fit. Easy job to do if you take your time and remove a little just a little metal at a time. Here is their website: http://www.smithandalexander.com/

I would also like to change the trigger, maybe for a composite one. The one in the gun has a special cut ache to fit the owner’s finger.

Brownell's offers several replacement triggers for the para. The lightest weight one is manufactured by Dlask. Excellent quality item.

It also has come to my knowledge that it is possible to us S_I magazines but that this requires a special mag. button? Or do you modify the original?

The magazines can be modified but then they will not work in an STI/SVI gun. Its better to modify the least expensive part. Rich Dettlehouser with Canyon Creek can modify your stock para mag catch to work with stock STI/SVI magazines. I bought a new stainless para mag catch from Brownells and sent it to Rich who then modified it. Works great. http://www.canyoncreekcustom.com/

How many rounds can actually you get in a 40 para mag? Does a S_I hold mag hold more? And who makes aftermarket mag parts for Paras? (springs, pads and followers?

When I needed to replace my para magazines recently, I was disappointed with the quality of the new para mags. With the SVI magazines, I only shoot 9mm major (in open class). My 140mm tuned mags hold 23 rds reloadable or 24 rds maximum. I do not know how many .40 rds they will hold, but they hold more than a stock para magazine.

PS: this gun has to fit the IPSC standard box. IPSC Standard class PF is 170.

Shooting a 170 PF should not tear up a well built para frame. I have over 75k rounds of major shot through it. It was built when minimum PF was 175. I still shoot it with a 172+ PF to keep the comp working properly.

Bill