texasag93 Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 I have given up on the stock barrel in my P16. Para says that the gun should shoot 3" or less at 25yds. I can't get close to that with lead, plated or jacketed bullets of any kind. I want a new barrel. What kind? I don't want to pay $300 for it either. Bull or bushing? Is there a good drop in or get one to be fitted? I have seen everyone in the world advertising barrels. Who makes a good one and which ones should I avoid? Any advise would be great. Thanks, TXAG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 Are you sure it is the barrel? Have you tried fitting a match grade bushing? My stock barrel P16 with a match bushing does sub 2" groups at 25 yards fairly easily and I am not a bullseye shooter. A new bushing would be a lot cheaper than a new barrel. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmccrock Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 Not a P16, but my P14-45 wore out its bushing in under 1500 rounds. Groups were roughly dinner plate sized at 15 yards. New bushing fixed it. The barrel was almost rattling around inside the bushing; it was pretty obvious. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagop Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 I concur with kimel.....get yourself a Wilson #29S stainless match bushing from our host before you open the door to a unnecessary expenses. I have tried other makes of bushings, and have found the Wilson fits the Para slide the best dimensionally out of the package with minor to no fitting. Mic the inside of your slide and the outside dimensions of your barrel and compare. The Wilson advertised bushing dimensions for the #29S is .825 Long X .581 I.D. X .702 O.D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasag93 Posted June 29, 2003 Author Share Posted June 29, 2003 I wish I could say it was the bushing. It is tight(as tight as can be expected for a production gun). The gun locks up tighter than a couple of my more accurate 45's. I wish there was a cheap fix but think it is the barrel. I am waiting on an answer from Para on what they think it is. Sent them a lengthy email on the 13 different loads I have tried in it with no groups under 5 inches at 25 yds from sandbags. Their first reply was that it should shoot under 3" at 25 and that I just needed to find a load it liked. It doesn't like anything I have put in it, factory or reloads. TXAG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Capizzo Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 If you do put a new barrel in it, I can tell you I have an Ed Brown bull barrel in my P16 and I'm happy with it. The gun was set up this way when I bought it, so I don't know what the cost of barrel and fitting would be. I think Detlef has said that the Ed Brown is the only bull barrel that will correctly fit the Para slide. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike4045 Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 I had the same problem a couple of years ago. I put in a Briley spherical bushing and it solved the problem. The gun got to about 10,000 rounds and went to shooting 8" to 10" groups at 25 yds. Mike4045 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h4444 Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 My Para was much the same, a new bushing helped, but I'm still not happy. I never shoot lead so I'm going with a Nowlin bull barrel. It is on order and my smith will have my pistol soon enough. I went with the Nowlin on his recommendation based on my problems with lead. H4444 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasag93 Posted June 29, 2003 Author Share Posted June 29, 2003 I have measured my barrel and bushing: Barrel 1/4" from muzzel= .577" Bushing = .582 Difference of only .005. That is about standard. Think I will be looking at a new barrel soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Well, sounds like it sure could be the barrel. However, if you are going new barrel then go ahead and go with a new bushing...unless of course you go for a bull barrel. Someone (Ed Brown?) makes a drop-in for the Para but you might as well go the full boat and have it fit properly. One last thought...are you sure the bushing is tight to the slide? As in, could that be tight to the barrel and the whole mess rocking around. Regardless...let us know how it works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h4444 Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 If you aren't happy with the performance and have determined it to be the barrel,,,,more precisely, the barrel fit,,,,,I don't know your plans, but I wouldn't buy a drop in. H4444 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Difference of only .005. That is about standard. hmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 since my name was called I will pitch in: 1. I find it hard to believe that it's the barrel itself, but if you are really sure... 2. you could just get a Limited P16 replacement barrel. They are *supposed* to be better barrels than what comes with the standerd P16 model, and they indeed have a separate Para part no. 3. If you want to go for a bull barrel, indeed, the Ed Brown is the only one that is big enough at the muzzel to fit acceptable well the large Para slide. Nothing is drop in, you will need to fit, but at least there is material to do it. The Ed Brown is not as heavy a bull barrel as you can get, though, but (I've had one) it is a *very* good and accurate one. 4. Of course, you can get a new slide (STI or so) and bull barrel, then you have a wider choice, but an emptier wallet.... --Detlef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasag93 Posted July 1, 2003 Author Share Posted July 1, 2003 Detlef, my P16 is a Limited. I located a Ransom Rest! This will tell me whether I just suck with the Para or it is something else. Bushing is tight to slide. I have to use a bushing wrench to remove it. .005 difference in barrel to bushing fit. I am told that is about right. I have been looking at aftermarket barrels and cant decide on bull or bushing. I am leaning toward bushing. I am not real familiar with the bull barrel but the Para I disassmbled had the slide modified for the reverse plug. I really don't want to modify the the slide if that is neccesary for all bull barrels. The price is right on a KKM barrel...any thought on KKM? I was hoping to get barrel and fitted for under $200... That possible? Will let yall know how the Ransom Rest test turns out. OH... I emailed Para about it and they acted like we aren't suppose to shoot reloads in Para P16 Limiteds. Guess that is a liability thing?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasag93 Posted July 1, 2003 Author Share Posted July 1, 2003 ....Just an after thought, but I have used a Lee Factory Crimp die exclusively for reloading my P16 .40 rounds. Could the minimal sizing of the loaded round make it loose or sloppy in the chamber and effect accuracy?????? Like neck sizing rifle cases so they fit the idividual chamber usually improves accuracy. This would be the reverse for the Lee FC die maybe? Just examining every angle. TXAG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 and I thought factory ammo also sucked? If so, and if you've tried quality factory ammo, then your reloads should not be the source of aggravation... Another idea is to use someone else's P16 barrel and test accuracy. Maybe something horribly wrong with the set-up? That being said, I shot a factory-barreled P14-45 for many years that couldn't group better than about 4" @ 25 y with any kind of ammo. The chamber was so large that I was afraid of having a true *double feed* one day (two rounds in the chamber.... --Detlef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyaboutguns Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 Hello texasag93: The Ed Brown barrells for Paras are excellent. They are made to maximum dimensions for tight, consistent lockup. To date I have installed an Ed Brown bushing barrell in a Para P-14 Limited (45ACP), and an Ed Brown bull barrell in a Para P-16 Limited (40 S&W). Both guns are now accurate, and cycle reliably. On the P-14 barrel its bottom lugs required just a slight amount of fitting to align the rear of the slide with the rear of the frame. The P-16 barrell required no removal of metal, and along with a new slide lock pin of .200 diameter the gun locks up without play. If you decide on a bull barrell, as was mentioned in a previous posting, the Ed Brown is the only bull style barrell available which will provide the proper muzzle to slide fit. All other bull barrells of which I am aware are sized .694"-.697" diameter, which will not provide proper fit to the Para slide internal diameter. What ever barrell you select, utilize a new slide lock pin. The original equipment pin from Para tends to wear away quickly, in comparison to pins made of hardened steel. My suggestion is a .200" diameter pin from Evolution Gun Works (EGW). Brownell's sells them, and also sells the Ed Brown barrells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasag93 Posted July 2, 2003 Author Share Posted July 2, 2003 Thanks for the info. guys. I will be doing some Ransom Rest tests on my P16 this weekend with several different loads to see if it is the barrel. The gun locks up tight so if it wont shoot, I will be replacing the barrel shortly. Thanks again, TXAG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooterj Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 I had Clark Custom fit a match grade bushing to my P-14 and had them install their slide guide system on it. It came back with a test target that was shot from a ransom rest at 25 yds which measured less than 2". The lugs on the P-14 barrel did have to be welded up and recut. The work was done in 1996 and it still shoots just as tight as the day I got it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasag93 Posted July 6, 2003 Author Share Posted July 6, 2003 Tried 6 different loads in my P16 Limited this weekend at the range. Didn't get to use the Ransom Rest. I used a solid rest with sand bags. The 2 factory rounds were UMC 180 FP and Winchester white box 180 FP. UMC averaged 4.5" @ 25yds. Win. averaged 6" @ 25yds. All groups were 10 rounds. There was no stringing, just round groups. One hand load(LSWC) averaged 3". That was good but I don't want to shoot lead because of all the smoke. Group average for all loads was around 4.75" @ 25 yds. That isn't close to Para's statement of 3" or less at 25yds. I think it is time for a new barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyaboutguns Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 Purchase an Ed Brown barrell for Para P-16, install and end of problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasag93 Posted July 9, 2003 Author Share Posted July 9, 2003 Well...I did it. I ordered (or my smithy ordered) a nw barrel for my P16 today. I went with a Barsto bushing barrel. Did not want to alter the slide for a bull barrel. I guess I was thinking down the road if the gun had to be returned to Para for warranty work. Companies tend to not like their products to be altered. Should be in shortly. Hope this fixes my problems. Thanks for all the info. TXAG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L1011 Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 I'm looking to replace a barrel on a Stainless Steel P16 Limited. I got a good price on a Ed Brown Barrel/Link/bushing assembly #935-40. Is this a true drop in? Are there any concerns? I would love to hear from anyone who used Ed brown barrels in a Para. Thanks Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 [note:] I merged L1011's question into this thread. Seemed to fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsonm1 Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Before you spend the money on a replacement, might want to consider having the barrel recrowned. Para's crowning is marginal at best. By having my P16 barrel recrowned, it went from a 3 inch gun to a 1.5 inch gun, with no other mods being made. Worked on my P14 also...especially with lead bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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