Peoples Opinions

[ChrisStock]

As the OP stated, no, guns are NOT socially acceptable these days. Our founding fathers are rolling in their graves. Without them we as

I work with a bunch of clueless young'uns that lean close to 9 o'clock in their pop culture lives. I am seen as a right dangerous caveman type because I had the audicity to volunteer for a trip or 2 to the 2 way shooting range. To top it off, I actually enjoy beating the beshizzle out of some paper after work and positively get wood making a plate rack sing.

Yes...like when you hear some thug got busted and GASP! HE HAD 50 ROUNDS OF LIVE AMMO IN HIS CAR!!! God help me if I ever get pulled over by someone who is having a sore butt day.... the 5-600 odd rounds and various weaponry in my vehicle and/or on my person might send him/her into cardiac arrest. I always travel with some shooting gear, as I never know when I'll have time for live fire. Maybe a quick trip indoors for some SHO/WHO during lunch hour, or a half hour after work on my way home.

BTW, the image of Mel Gibson shooting a smiley face onto the target in "Lethal Weapon" 20+ years ago still sticks with me and positively makes me LMAO. It sure as hell looked easy enough onscreen...why can I not do that myself?

[Tangram]

Jason wrote, "Anyway what's with people's attitude about taking something seriously?"

Two comments one on target, one expanding on the theme.

When they came to to shoot at our twice a month local matches I shot with officers from a couple small police departments and the county sheriffs. They were consistently out shot. Except for one officer they soon quit. I believe we were friendly and encouraging. We did not pretend to be doing anything other than having fun with our game.

When I rode a motorcycle I was interested in expanding my range of control. I'd go to a cornering schools to push my edges. When I'd tell someone (riders or nonriders) I was excited about going to the class they were puzzled and would say something like, you already know how to ride so why would you go to a school... The idea of becoming more skillful seems to be an alien concept to many.

Some will spend a fortune on a high performance car and would never admit they might benefit from learning how to drive it or experience its potentials. (Yes I know skillful handling is not the only reason to buy a high performance anything especially when the same skills work fine in a Civic.)

In addition, I see people take up a activity that involves some level of risk, deny the risk and refuse to learn to be skillful. Put them in a sea kayak. They will not go to a class to find out what happen if they dump it or learn to read a current table.... Don't need to know that kind of stuff they say.

Big surprise! I think most people should stay away from wheelbarrows, simple levers, and other mechanical devices. I refuse to discuss the possibility of using a paring knife or a car's jack or learning how to tie a basic knot or two.

[Brian Payne]

You should see the looks I get when asked how I like the new area Golf Course. I tell them it seems like a waste of a perfectly good rifle range.

[AlamoShooter]

I wonder.....Do competitive Golfers , and competitive Curlers have a forum?

WE are a bit strange. Oh sorry I am a bit strange.

I think if we were all runners and trying to beet the 4 min mile we would most likely end up with the same resistance.

[38superman]

Yes...like when you hear some thug got busted and GASP! HE HAD 50 ROUNDS OF LIVE AMMO IN HIS CAR!!! God help me if I ever get pulled over by someone who is having a sore butt day.... the 5-600 odd rounds and various weaponry in my vehicle and/or on my person might send him/her into cardiac arrest.

When I recently went to a Manny Bragg class I had 2600 rounds of ammo

and two race guns in my vehicle. (Along with my carry gun).

While driving I wondered if I might end up on the 6 o'clock news.

I could picture being in handcuffs, surrounded by guys with "BATF" and "FBI" written on their jackets.

I can hear it now. "Heavily armed gun nut apprehended on I-65".

Public now safe. You can go back to watching reruns of "Friends".

As for the attitude Jason is facing, I have noted that there are many LEO's that play this game.

Some are outstanding, others are average.

I don't know how their hobby is received by others in their departments, but I'm betting there is a lot of skepticism and even ridicule.

Probably has to do with big egos.

I couldn't count the number of officers that come out to play and never come back.

It's a pity.

I have long said that IPSC is only a game and not tactical training.

However, I can't help but believe that all that shooting and gun handling wouldn't give them an edge in a tough spot.

Tony

Edited May 28, 2008 by 38superman

[tightloop]

Most officers that I know that are still active, are not gun guys...their jobs require many different skills and use with firearms is but a small part of the skill set they use and they don't use it daily...I would also bet that to some degree, the ones who thought about competing or did come to a match did not like the fact that LOTS of civilians could or did beat the pants off them.

They have a difficult job, and I appreciate everything they do to keep it as safe as they do...

[Jim Norman]

My feeling on this is that LEO may not use their gun EVER, BUT when they do they should be very good with it. I really don't care if they make an error writing an accident report, have to cross out something and re-write it, I do care that if they miss a BG and hit a bystander, there they cannot just cross out the error and re-write it.

Do I care if they come out and shoot with us? No, I really don't. But they should get away from that silly 100 round test they currently do, (60 day, 40 simulated night) PPC type time fired positions and start to train in a dynamic manner. Use IPSC or IDPA style stage set-ups, FOrget fixed time and go for hits in the shortest possible time, but while maintaing all the tactical manuevers they need.

We have several LEO that do shoot with us regularly. Several are Master Class and can hold their own anywhere, others just come out to have fun. Still others show up once or twice and we never see them again. If the ones that leave go back and say to themselves, I am embarrassed to shoot against those old fat guys, but I better work on my skills, that is a good thing. If on the otherhand they go away thinking, So what that is 'Just a game' and they stick to their old ways, they sadly may someday either not go home, or go home with a bad shooting on their heads.

Jim

[dcarter]

My feeling on this is that LEO may not use their gun EVER, BUT when they do they should be very good with it. I really don't care if they make an error writing an accident report, have to cross out something and re-write it, I do care that if they miss a BG and hit a bystander, there they cannot just cross out the error and re-write it.

Do I care if they come out and shoot with us? No, I really don't. But they should get away from that silly 100 round test they currently do, (60 day, 40 simulated night) PPC type time fired positions and start to train in a dynamic manner. Use IPSC or IDPA style stage set-ups, FOrget fixed time and go for hits in the shortest possible time, but while maintaing all the tactical manuevers they need.

We have several LEO that do shoot with us regularly. Several are Master Class and can hold their own anywhere, others just come out to have fun. Still others show up once or twice and we never see them again. If the ones that leave go back and say to themselves, I am embarrassed to shoot against those old fat guys, but I better work on my skills, that is a good thing. If on the otherhand they go away thinking, So what that is 'Just a game' and they stick to their old ways, they sadly may someday either not go home, or go home with a bad shooting on their heads.

Jim

I couldn't agree more! However, those "100 round" courses you are talking about are set up by the state as minimum standards. Our department have added moving targets and moving/shooting exercises. I have tried on several occassions to get my co-workers to come out and shoot but I believe most are affraid of getting shown up by "old fat guys". God knows most could use the practice.

[dcarter]

I don't know what it is about people and serious shooters. I work in law enforcement so maybe I see this as worse from my peers. I am starting to get pretty serious about competing in USPSA and I am actually getting flack about it from people at work and some friends outside of work. Yes, it takes a lot of time, and yes guns maybe aren't the most socially acceptable things, not that I really care about the latter. This is a sport, a pretty great sport with some great people and pretty stiff competition at any level. Maybe I won't make it to be a "Proffesional" in this sport but if I, or anyone else, works hard enough there is the possibility.

I just wonder if I am getting flack because of the detication it takes to do well, is it the actual shooting part or what? I have to say that I know a few Law enforcement officers out there that have no clue that if they went to a match they would have thier @$$ handed to them in a pretty big way. Some are willing to work a bit to help themselves, but most are very happy in thier denial and don't want to hear anything about it.

Anyway what's with people's attitude about taking something seriously?

Rant off,

Jason

Just thought I would let you know that you are not alone. As in the game, do it for yourself! As you are well aware cops love to get on your last nerve just for the fun of it. Don't let them see you sweat. This sport, as in most, requires a certain amount of dedication and work that they are not willing to put in. Shoot your own game and don't let them get to you. Just my .02. Stay safe and keep the faith.

[38superman]

Dan,

If you really think that some of your fellow officers are staying away from matches because they might be "shown up", why not try to get a few together and run your own squad?

I hope none of those "old fat guys" are making your buddies uncomfortable by gloating.

IPSC is a highly specialized skill set and takes time to learn.

We need to grow our membership.

Making newbies feel inadequate isn't the way to do it, no matter what they do for a living.

Just as a side note:

I once walked out of a restaurant with some friends just a police officer was making an arrest.

As we walked into the parking lot I saw an officer with gun drawn about 20 yds away and the suspect about 10 yds away.

The suspect was directly between us and the officer.

We were all in the line of fire.

I was practically looking down the muzzle.

I remember thinking, If this guy shoots were all in trouble and instictively put myself between the gun and my wife.

The perpetrator surrendered without incident and I found out later the guy had just robbed a convenience store at gun point.

I hope that officer is not one of those that needs a lot more practice.

Tony

Edited May 29, 2008 by 38superman