Soft .45 load for steel

[DogmaDog]

Me again,

I'm hoping to load two varieties of .45 ammo on my new 550b.  For my USPSA major load, I'm starting with 4.4gr of WST behind a 200gr lead SWC (starting load from Winchester's components catalog).

For plates, I'd like to build the softest load possible, but there's nothing in my reloading manual (Speer), or elsewhere that I've looked concerning developing wimpy loads.  How far can I work down from a starting load?  Are there any safety considerations I should know about?  What powders lend themselves well to soft loads (are they fast, slow, dense, or light?)  

Anybody have some wimpy .45 loads they've used with success?

Thanks for your help!

DogmaDog

[jmaass]

Light .45ACP loads on steel will have you feeling like you are lobbing Volkswagons downrange on the long shots (and on some medium shots).

I've always taken a contrarian view to loading for steel  and NRA Action Pistol matches: I always shoot my IPSC loads. That way, these matches serve as practice for my preferred matches (USPSA/IPSC), and I don't have to deal with a gun that handles differently every time I pick it up for a different match.

I had a light load for my 9x21s at one time for steel and Action Pistol, but when fired the gun's slide felt like a boxcar rocking back-and-forth on a siding. I'm sure that with judicious spring-swapping, I could have made it work better, but then I still was stuck with making sure everything was configured correctly for each different kind of match.

Too many other things change when I go to a different match: no need for me to add to the adjustment problems with a varying load and gun setup.

If you are still looking for wimpy .45ACP loads, look to the Bullseye shooters. That's all they ever shoot, and ther's no shortage of load data for accurate loads from them over the past several decades!

[Duane Thomas]

I'm with Jeff. I just run my Major .45 loads at plate matches. I've won, doing that. If you want a light load for steel, you probably also don't want a .45 to start with.

[Sam]

   Dogma, being a bit of a wimp myself,  maybe I can offer some very weak advice. (hehe)    When I used to down load my .45 for steel, I went the route of a much lighter bullet.  155's at 1000 fps gave the desired reduction in recoil without giving the targets time to rust before the bullet got there.  This was back when major was still 175 pf and I always loaded to 180pf for USPSA.  I was using Bullseye powder, but I can't remember the charge weight.   My old Springfield Armory never met a bullet it didn't like, but I did have to experiment with OAL for maximum reliability.  Some .45's may not feed the sharp nosed 155's at all.   If the 155's don't feed,  you may try 175's at 875 fps if your dead set on a whoopin' up a wimpy load.  

     I just don't use this kind of load anymore.  I have two nines and a forty now.   (I could make a sarcastic comment about the nines, but I like to leave something for the next guy.)    Basically, what you are asking about can be done.  I was able to do it successfully, but it may be more of a PITA than it's worth.  

[Norm Lee]

Hey Dog:

Try this for steel:  3.7 to 3.9 gr.  of V V N310 under a 200 gr. SWC or rnfp. I used the ones from Precision. I got about  a 140 pf with the 3.9 charge. A 10 lb spring is good. 12# is OK. My gun will cycle with the 140 pf load and a stock spring but it is sluggish.

This is a nice, light, very accurate load.

Cheers,

Norm

[Larry White]

Dogma, try 4.2 or 4,3 of titegroup with a200 swc (cast). If you can get one Laser-cast has a manual with really good 45 acp stuff and thier bullets are about the best around. The bullets you are using are good. I can,t find my 45 load data but  I  shot 200 swc at major for uspsa and used the same load for steel, just with a 185 didnt change any thing, worked good.                  Larry

[benos]

It depends on how serious you are about the particular match. I've won local steel matches shooting major, but I'd never go to the Steel Challenge shooting major, for example. Neither would The Great One.

If you feel like you'd finish better with a light load, (in a .45), by all means go with the lightest bullet your gun will function with (110%) and load it down until your gun either won't function, or just feels too sluggish (to you) to no longer be of an advantage to load it any lighter. The last two loads mentioned sound good...

be

[Skywalker]

Dogma,

if you are really looking for soft loads in .45", I too would stick with the lighter bullets.

In my early days of reloading I have experimented a bit with .45" bullets ranging from 155grs up to 220.

You can browse through all my pet loads on my club website (it has an english section for foreign shooters) www.teamoffire.it in the "Reloading Data" page - .45" HP section.

Test firearm was a standard SS Colt .45 MKIV series 80, with factory recoil spring: all loads cycled correctly.

For your info: .45" HP is the Italian version of ACP, the only difference is that brass is 1mm shorter (silly laws, the same for 9x19 we had to lenghten up to 9x21), but this has no practical effect on reloads, as long as you stick with the same (listed) O.A.L. (well, for those of you so fussy, ACP has 1mm of extra contact between brass and bullet with same O.A.L.).

[DogmaDog]

Thanks everyone!

Actually, I realize I'm probably more into looking for things to experiment with now that I have a reloading press than I am determined to win plate matches by shooting soft loads.  

Before I got it, I loaded some on an SDB at a friend's house, using 4.8gr of W231, and that felt really soft to me compared to factory 230gr FMJ, and I won the match with it and didn't have to change my factory spring either.

So last night I loaded 50 rounds each with 4.0 and 4.2 gr of WST, and refined my seating and crimp die settings a bit, and hopefully I'll get some shooting data for those loads this weekend, along with the 4.4gr starting load I made (which I expect to be eratic due to variable crimp and OAL).

lkytx,

Thanks for the suggestion on Titegroup, I happen to have bought some, and my speer manual doesn't list it, and the Hodgdon manual I downloaded only lists maximum loads, and only for jacketed bullets.  I'll have to track down the lasercast manual.

Thanks again,

DogmaDog

[Larry White]

Dogmadog, http://www.laser-cast.com    1800 811 0548, I don't use them sience I guit shooting cast bullets but they were the best I ever saw or shot and its a good little book.                                        Larry

[DogmaDog]

Skywalker,

There's some sweet information on that website!

I hadn't known the relationship between charge weight and velocity was so close to linear.  I would have guessed charge wt vs. kinetic energy would be closer to linear, or that the relation would be so complex as to not be worth trying to model (why else would they only ever put 2 data points in a reloading manual??)

Thanks much!

Larry,

Laser-Cast is giving away manuals if you buy 2000 bullets from them.  I guess they twisted my arm well enough.  They're more expensive than the local guy's bullets, which seem to be pretty good, but, hey, free manual.  I'll give the 180s and 155s a try.

Thanks,

DogmaDog

[Patrick Sweeney]

The light bullet route is not wihtout its problems.  Light loads with light bullets usually mean dirty loads from low-efficiency burning.  Also, you may have to go with lighter springs to keep the gun reliable (especially if your grip is not firm) and lighter springs can uncover feeding problems that were previously masked by a heavy spring.

And light bullets with light loads can be touchy to develop accurate loads.  I've found some pistols just didn't like the 155's, while others were accurate with a few loads but not all.  None shot as accurately across the board as they did with 200 lswc at major.

[TRG65]

When I shot bullseye in college, part of my education was exposure and conversion to action shooting, I shot 3.4 grs of VV-310 behind a laser-cast 185 SWC.  I don't think this load would have made minor pf, but I didn't have a chrono at the time so I don't know.  I did have to adjust my elevation when moving from 50 to 25 yards.  And the spring was 12 or 13lbs I don't remember.

[DogmaDog]

Patrick,

Thanks.  I guess I'm willing to blow some time, effort, and money to mess around with it...learning to get it to work = learning more about reloading.  

As far as filthiness goes, does using a faster powder help when using lighter bullets (and would you recommend a specific powder to fill that niche)?

Thanks,

DogmaDog

[George D]

DogmaDog,

I would be surprised if 4.4gr WST with 200gr lswc will acheive major. With 200gr H&G#68 I've chronoed 4.2gr WST at 750fps and 4.6gr WST at 800fps, with the later being more reliable. Same shape projectile but different coating gave 820fps with 4.7 WST.

The figures quoted in loading manuals are a good guide for a safe starting point, but the are produced under laboratory conditions so they are rarely replicated in the field as there are a great many variables involved. You really need to chrono your loads to assess the velocity that you are acheiving. I also agree with Patrick's comments on light loads and projectiles. I recall that in Brian's book he nominated 150-160PF to be suitable for steel plates.

[Larry White]

Dogma, watch that linear stuff, as you reach the high end stuff starts changing quick(case capacity)                          Larry

[SmittyFL]

DogmaDog,

   I shot steel matches a long time before I started IPSC. I shot .45 in a 1911 and S&W 625. I used to use a 200 gr. lead over 4.2 grns. of WST. That gave me about 700fps. (140PF) But because of that round being so dirty, (lead and slow) I switched to a rainer 200gr over 3.8 of Clays. That gave me less than 700fps. I still use that load on the rare occasion I shoot a steel match. If you don't want to set up a steel specific gun I think that works fine. I even shot the steel challenge with it in the 625. The only draw back is the 40 yd. shot, it is a little bit of delay, you just have to call your shot better:) But I really like that load.

PS.   OAL 1.255

Hope this helps.

[Skywalker]

Dogma,

I too have been impressed by the linearity of most of my test ammo, and, apart from a little flattening of the curve (due to the different scales on X and Y axis), I have figured the following:

the whole velocity vs powder charge curve should behave like this:

- at lower ends (low powder charge), where powder burns irregularly, and upper ends (near or above maximum charge), you need big powder increments to get small  velocity increments; these are the curve areas of non-linearity, where risk (light or excessive load) is high, due to high pressures (yes, high pressure can be the result of too light powder charges too).

- The central part of the curve, where pressures are "normal", and where powder burns regularly, the behaviour of velocity vs charge is pretty straightforward and linear, and equal increases in powder charge will result in equal increases of velocity.

My approach is: I start from a good manual listing for powder charge (usually Lyman's reloading guide 47th ed., or Vitavuori listings) and test some loads; whenever I see that I'm approaching a steeper leg of the above mentioned curve, I stop there, presuming I am leaving the safe pressures area for that particular load.