It's The Gun. . . Not The Shooter!!

[mellow]

yeah, let's see what I can stir up with this.

We all know the saying, "It's the shooter, not the gun" Yes, I agree, but this last wednesday of shooting made me think about things. Here's the story:

In the beginning, I shot mostly glocks. I still do. But once I got my first 1911, I noticed I shot those guns with much more accuracy than my glocks. Back in those days, I thought, eh, glocks are just innately less accurate. . .these 1911s really show off my skills. the gun, not the shooter. . . yeah, I know, stupid.

This past wednesday, to adjust the sights on my sti, I was shooting some rounds off a rest. For fun, I shot some through my glock and noticed the holes grouped fairly well in comparison to my STI. So yeah, it's not the gun, it's the shooter. FINE, I have poor trigger control and/or I have flinching and milking problems. You name it, I probably got it. Then I began to philosiphize, with the trigger on the glock, it leaves more room for my problems to surface. I figure that the lighter and crisper break of the STI left less room for my problems to surface. In essence, the 1911 was covering up some underlying problems as well as giving me a false sense of skill improvement. If I'm just blowing hot air here, stop me now, or forever hold your peace.

Is the 1911 preventing me from addressing my problems? Should I spend more time with handguns with longer trigger pulls, and squishier breaks so that I can iron out my skills? If I can shoot a "bad" trigger well, wouldn't I be able to kick a$$ with a "good" trigger? I just want to know that it was my trigger finger, not the trigger job, that made me hit the steel.

So what do you guys think??

That being said, i was thinking about picking up a para LDA, either in .40 or 9mil, to shoot production. I would get to stick with a 1911 platform, plus the heavier and longer trigger would force me to work on my problems.

All opinions welcome. Thanks guys!!

[Flexmoney]

Great post!

I'd also add that guys that shoot with the heavy guns are missing out on some recoil training. (Some of those Limited guns are nearly double the weight of my Glock.)

Then there are those that jump right to Open...they miss out on lots of different training. (It's neat to watch the dot guys pick up their Limited guns once a year...and never find their front sight.)

I may be in the minority, but I like to improve the shooter...not the gun.

Some will think it is crazy not to use the best equipment...others will see it as a challenge.

[Steve Anderson]

I think it all depends on what your goals are, what you're trying to do...

My open gun is an ancient Caspian that is the only open gun I've ever spent any tme with. the few SxIs I've shot a few rounds through have not convinced me that I'll do any better with 3 grand more on my credit card.

I think we do best on the platform we like the best.

Flex has been teased about how he'd do better if he dumped his Glock for a 1911 type, and I used to get called "pretty good for a Beretta shooter."

I say shoot what you shoot the best. If it's between two guns you already own, shoot the one that brings out the best shooter in you.

If you shoot the 1911 better, put the Glock away. You owe it to yourself to use the tools you use the best.

If you shoot the G-lock better, join a gang. (Kidding guys, just kidding )

If you shoot the Glock better, that's your preferred platform and what you should be using.

Another interesting thing on this topic... It seems like the threads about technical issues (guns, gear and doodads) get a lot more traffic than the threads about mental issues and real training type threads.

You can't buy improvement, you have to earn it.

SA

[vincent]

I think you can work on your problems with any platform. It's just a matter of identifying the problems and expending the effort required to improve. I will say that it helps to pick a platform and a load and stick with it. Don't get caught up in equipment which is so easy to do. I know I'm a gadget freak and have spent way too much time fidgeting over equipment. My advise is to get something that works and shoot the dickens out of it.

I have been in a shooting rut for about 6 months and thought that changing guns would be helpfull. I'm now realizing that some of my problem has been continuing to train on items that I'm already proficient and not analyzing my shooting enough to determine what I should be working on NOW. For me I've actually gotten to a point where I need to concentrate on the "not-shooting" aspects of the sport ie. movement between positions, setting up going into a position, economy of motion, etc. Therefore what I need to work is pretty much independent of the equipment. This seemed weird to me at first, but as Brian says you need to keep an open mind.

You need to ask yourself: Have I really analyzed my shooting to find out what I need to be working on to improve? What are the top 3 things I want to work on? What an I going to do to improve on those things and what can I do to measure my improvement?

[John Thompson]

Your right in that switching guns just allowed you ignore the problem. Usually when one swtiches guns they'll shoot the new gun better because they haven't developed a mindset yet towards that gun. The mindset always returns.

[tightloop]

When looking at the 1911 and the Glock you are trying to compare apples and oranges. I don't think anyone on this forum will dispute that a professionally done 1911 trigger is better than a pro done Glock trigger. Having said that, you need to decide which one you can progress farther and fastest with, and tank the other one. When you get to the GM level, if you want to experiment with the other type pistol for a while, great. It is my personal opinion that you will go farther, faster if you stick with one platform and climb the ladder with it, no matter what it is.

There are some exceptional Glock shooters out there, but all kidding aside, it has a trigger that can be harder to learn than the trigger of a 1911. You pay your money and take your chances.

That is why there is chocolate or vanilla, Ford or Chevy, 1911 or Glock, not everyone likes the same thing, try them both and then pick one and stay with it till you have a through understanding of that platform and determine how far you can go with it.

[Ron Ankeny]

How does that old saying go, "Beware the man who owns one gun. He probably knows how to use it."

Pretty good advice from all, but I am one of those guys who dabbles in everything. Right now I am shooting a single stack in Limited 10, a fat Open blaster, and I am in the process of tricking out my 610 revolver. I am shooting three divisions at the same time and not really doing justice to any of them. If I wanted to see how far I could go, I would have stuck with my limited pistol until I was deep into Master class. I get a lot of enjoyment out of being able to do pretty good with about anything I pick up. Next on the agenda is Production.

To answer your question, it doesn't matter what you shoot, you still need to develop proper technique and learn the fundamentals. If you are jerking, flinching, blinking and so on, you can work on those with a cheap CZ, a two thousand dollar S_I Limited pistol or a Fanner Fifty cap gun made by Mattel.

[mcoliver]

You learn the basics and master the fundamentals, you can practically shoot anything and be decent with it. IMO we need to "cross-train" on different platforms (sport or gun) to get new experiences which can help us diagnose our problems and sometmes even figure them out. But you can't forever be the "jack-of-all-trades" and "master-of-none." So there should always be a single platform that you play with consistently to be able to excel and realize the goals you've set for yourself. I like what Steve A. had said above:

"I think we do best on the platform we like the best."

[Bill Nesbitt]

The Stallion 45 cap gun has a much better trigger than the Fanner Fifty.

It's the gun not the shooter. If so why do I shoot a Glock. I remember now. It's because it works all the time without constant tinkering.

Bill Nesbitt

[Duane Thomas]

I'd also add that guys that shoot with the heavy guns are missing out on some recoil training.  (Some of those Limited guns are nearly double the weight of my Glock.)

Hmmmm. One of the things I like very much about the Glock is how little muzzle flip it has. I mean, with good technique, the front sight barely moves when you fire the gun.

I'm constantly amused by the people who complain about how "hard" their Glock 17/19/34/26 is to fire. Man, if you can't fire a 9mm Glock well, you might as well hang it up.

[tightloop]

Bill Nesbitt

You are correct, the Stallion 45 does indeed have a better trigger than the Fanner Fifty.

Also, if you guys had a really competent pistol smith do the work on your 1911's instead of getting out the big mill file or your Dremel, you wouldn't have to constantly tinker with them to get them to run. Only one guy works on my 1911's and the only thing he does is to check the engagement on the hammer hooks every year or so.

Duane

Glad I could offer some amusement for your enjoyment, generally only my grand children think I am funny.

[Flexmoney]

I mean, with good technique, the front sight barely moves when you fire the gun.

Good technique. That is exactly what I am talking about.

Shooting a MAJOR Glock (stock) with .15 splits (and seeing Alphas) takes good technique. I can't be out of tune by much. I have to drive the gun on target.

When I shoot the Open Caspian in Super...I can relax behind the trigger and let the gun do the work.

It is all relative, though. Pushing the Limits...I think you have to be tuned into your gear. If you are going at 70-85% I think you can get away with more.

[Flexmoney]

Also, if you guys had a really competent pistol smith do the work on your 1911's instead of getting out the big mill file or your Dremel, you wouldn't have to constantly tinker with them to get them to run.  Only one guy works on my 1911's and the only thing he does is to check the engagement on the hammer hooks every year or so.

TL,

(possible replies)

1. Do you realize how insulting that sounds to some of the members here???

Not everyone in a moron with a file and a hammer! Expecially some of the members here...that have been around the block a time or two.

2. If the 1911 is so almightly perfect...why is there only one person on the entire planet that you feel you can trust to work on your gun?

3. If you choose a Glock...you wouldn't need a "really competent pistolsmith".

[Duane Thomas]

Duane

Glad I could offer some amusement for your enjoyment, generally only my grand children think I am funny.

tl, I wasn't even thinking of you, or anyone on this board for that matter.

[tightloop]

My personal apologies to anyone who was offended by my remarks. No insult intended.

I forget that most people are more apt with their hands and their tools than I am, and perhaps do not need the services of a really good pistolsmith, like I do. Sorry.

[Flexmoney]

TL...just givin' ya a hard time.

I can take all day and still not remove any metal.

Others here do better I think.

[Duane Thomas]

I forget that most people are more apt with their hands and their tools than I am, and perhaps do not need the services of a really good pistolsmith, like I do.

Oh believe me, I'm definitely in the "needs the services of a good pistolsmith" camp, myself. Also the "A man's got to know his limitations" camp, too.

[glockster96]

Good technique.  That is exactly what I am talking about.

Shooting a MAJOR Glock (stock) with .15 splits (and seeing Alphas) takes good technique.  I can't be out of tune by much.  I have to drive the gun on target.

When I shoot the Open Caspian in Super...I can relax behind the trigger and let the gun do the work.

It is all relative, though.  Pushing the Limits...I think you have to be tuned into your gear.  If you are going at 70-85% I think you can get away with more.

Very good post.

I think it is easier for most people to shoot a 1911 more consitently than a G-lock.

But if you are running 100% mentally (and therefore physically), you won't have to worry about your gun.

[Luiz Francisco Ramos]

Just asking in the same teme:

I know a few shooters (4 or 5) that shoot mucn better with glock 24 then 1911.

Could be for the extra time required for glock trigger that causes a overtime used inconsciently by the shooter to adjust the vision of the sights?

Or can be the extra sensibility needed to control such a so sensible 1911 trigger, that turs a little dificult to control?

Or can be the dificulty to control effects of double taps in 1911, because of the faster it can be, in oposite of glock that have a slowly double tap?

or what else?

thanks

Ramos