want2shoot Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Cold someone please explain to me which is better majot or minor. I currently am shooting 45 acp in single stack and limited 10. I want to purchase a new STI edge for limited. I was going to get a 9mm. Everyone I talk to tells me to get a 40 cal. . When I ask why a 40 the response I get is because 9mm is minor. Could someone please explain to me why shooting major is better. Am I missing something? Is it something with the scoring? Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated. I want to be as informed as I can before I make the purchase, so I don't have regrets later. Thank you in advance for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indyshooter Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 in major a=5, b and c=4, d=3 points. in minor a=5, b and c=3, d=1. it's only a diadvantage if you miss the a. some shooters who load their own are bumping 9mm up to make major, mostly open shooters, but i understand that's a handful without a comp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 D = 2 for Major. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 In limited it has to be 40 caliber and major power factor (bullet weight x speed / 1000 = 165+) to be scored major. 40 is by far and away the choice for Limited! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 First off: Welcome to the Forum! Yes, it does have something to do with the scoring. You can take a look at this target and the chart at the bottom that describes the point value for each scoring zone: If you have an IDPA club close by, my suggestion would be to buy a 9mm 1911 and shoot it in IDPA's Enhanced Service Pistol (ESP) division. Nothing shoots flatter than 9 in a 1911, in my opion. The Cliff's Notes version on Major vs. Minor is you better get your A hits in if you're shooting minor. You probably don't know this yet about scoring, but what you are trying to go for is a real HIGH Hit Factor. They add up all your positive points for each target you shot, subtract any penalties points (misses, procedurals, and no shoots) and then DIVIDE your total for that stage by your stage TIME. So get the most points in the least amount of time. Easy, enough, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
want2shoot Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 First off:Welcome to the Forum! Yes, it does have something to do with the scoring. You can take a look at this target and the chart at the bottom that describes the point value for each scoring zone: If you have an IDPA club close by, my suggestion would be to buy a 9mm 1911 and shoot it in IDPA's Enhanced Service Pistol (ESP) division. Nothing shoots flatter than 9 in a 1911, in my opion. The Cliff's Notes version on Major vs. Minor is you better get your A hits in if you're shooting minor. You probably don't know this yet about scoring, but what you are trying to go for is a real HIGH Hit Factor. They add up all your positive points for each target you shot, subtract any penalties points (misses, procedurals, and no shoots) and then DIVIDE your total for that stage by your stage TIME. So get the most points in the least amount of time. Easy, enough, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
want2shoot Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 Thanks for the welcome and the responses. It makes perfect sense to me. I thought the 9mm would allow a person to shoot alot faster so the scoring would even things out a bit. Thanks for clearing that up for me. There are some IDPA clubs in the area and I have shot their steel matches a couple of times. They didn't care for the major power factor, as a matter of fact they charge you more to shoot major because they say it damages the targets. I really love any kind of competative shooting and want to try them all. Thanks for the responses, I really appreciate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 There's been a pretty lengthy discussion of Major vs. Minor WRT to the new Single Stack division here: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...118&hl=rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Rusert Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Don't forget, also, making Major is sexier! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Are you reloading, or buying, ammo ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
open17 Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 in major a=5, b and c=4, d=3 points. in minor a=5, b and c=3, d=1. it's only a diadvantage if you miss the a. some shooters who load their own are bumping 9mm up to make major, mostly open shooters, but i understand that's a handful without a comp. Only division that 9 major is recognized in is open. 40 cal minimum bore diameter for major in limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 (edited) in major a=5, b and c=4, d=3 points. in minor a=5, b and c=3, d=1. it's only a diadvantage if you miss the a. some shooters who load their own are bumping 9mm up to make major, mostly open shooters, but i understand that's a handful without a comp. Only division that 9 major is recognized in is open. 40 cal minimum bore diameter for major in limited. Don't forget about L-10 and Single Stack division as .40 cal for minimum bore dia. for major. Edited March 21, 2008 by HoMiE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogmaDog Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Wow. Charging a higher fee for major shooters? That is definitely NOT a USPSA match. The major/minor concept isn't all that hard, and it looks like it's been explained and understood. That said, I would hold off on spending ~$1600 on a gun until you've had a chance to shoot enough matches to have a real gut feel for the distinction. The 1911 you have now is fine for L-10 or SS divisions, and you could put many thousands of rounds through it before you reached your full potential (even though you are a faster than average learner). I used to shoot a single stack 1911 in USPSA matches, and also in local plate-rack matches. I shot major in USPSA, and I shot very wimpy minor loads (155gr bullets going sloooooww) in the plate rack matches. Eventually, I ran out of light bullets, and shot the major bullets at the plate racks. I discovered I wasn't really any slower shooting the higher PF vs. the lower PF. What I think was going on was that I just stiffened my grip and forearms more when shooting the major loads. The sights came back on target just as fast. I wasn't quite as consistent, but my typical runs, and best runs were equal...I just tanked a run slightly more often at the higher PF. If you want to shoot limited and be competitive, you really should run a .40. If you need to buy factory ammo, and want to save money, then a 9mm would work. If you want to really train yourself to shoot As, then shooting minor isn't a bad way to do it starting out. DD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Not to confuse you any more than you already are, but .... If you did buy a single stack in .40 and you did RELOAD your own ammo, then you could shoot minor PF'ed stuff for IDPA's ESP division, kinda like how I suggested buying a 9mm SS gun. Then you could up your powder charge in .40 and shoot major in USPSA's Single Stack and/or Limited 10 divisions. If you already have a single stack in .45, yes, you could theoretically download your ammo and shoot in ESP, and then have major PF'ed stuff for CDP. Confusing, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
want2shoot Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 (edited) The match I shot that charged more for major was a Texas Steel match. If you go to their web site www.texassteelcompetition.com they do not allow anything over 160pf or they charge an extra fee. It is written in black and white. When I shot it it was $10 on top of a $20 match fee. To answer the questions about reloading, no I am not. I am buying ammo and have been beaten up about that as well. I have been using Blazer Brass or Wolf ammo. Everyone tells me it's crap and to quit using it, but the price is right. I was wanting to get into the limited division and have nothing against the major power factor, as I am shooting a 45 acp now. The problems with the 45 I am experiencing are mainly all the reloads. I have tried the Chip McCormick 10 round mags in my gun and in a new Sti Spartan. They jammed up so bad we couldn't finish the course without getting the tools out to remove them. I did try a fellow shooters wilson combat 10 rounders for 20 rounds and they ran fine, but I am a little sceptical. I also am having a problem with shooting a round and trying to shoot the next one before the slide finishes its cycle. It is like pulling the trigger twice to shoot one round. Anyway you guy's are great and very knowledgeable. I really appreciate you taking time out of your day to help answer my questions. Edited March 21, 2008 by want2shoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlmiller1 Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Sounds like you've gotten a lot of good advice. I can pretty much guarantee you can't outrun your gun, though. I believe the average slide(unless the gun is malfunctioning) fires, ejects, picks up a new round, closes, is ready to fire in .05 seconds. Even the super duper best in the world are happy to have splits in the .10 second time frame. Most of the regular normal humans are closer to .20 or more. You may not be ready to fire another shot as fast as you would like but the gun is ready & waiting for you. By the way, if you develop an excellent grip habit, you will be ready for your second shot quicker. Good luck, have fun! MLM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
want2shoot Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 There may be something wrong with the gun. I have had all kinds of problems with this 80 series. It is nothing like my old Colt 70 series. The slide I am sure is faster than I am. I was just told that by a gun smith, when I asked him what the problem was, and I don't trust him to work on my gun now. It sounds like he doesn't know what he is talking about. I think I will sent the gun off to a compitent gun smith. I know of one 100 miles from me that is really good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 If you're here in the States, and let us know where, maybe some folks here could chime in and tell which gunsmith to go to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
want2shoot Posted March 22, 2008 Author Share Posted March 22, 2008 (edited) I was planning on taking the gun to Benny Hill, (Triangle Shooting Sports), in Corpus Christi, TX. I know he is a very good and everybody speaks very highly of him. Edited March 22, 2008 by want2shoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddy_fuentes Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 Well guys, I'll have to eat my words. I thought I would shoot Single Stack with a 9mm, run the 10 round mags, and be ahead of major by having to reload less. I shot Single Stack several times major and several times minor. I did not see the difference until I compared the scores. I scored 10% higher shooting major. I never thought that would be that much difference, but it is. Want2shoot, buy the .40 Edge, I have one and it is the easiest pistol I have ever shot. Buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odie Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 +1 on Benny. You can't go wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
want2shoot Posted March 23, 2008 Author Share Posted March 23, 2008 (edited) I really like the Edge, but I am becoming more and more partial to the Para Ordinance S-16 as well. Anyone have any experience with Para? I like the 40 cal. and I am really looking hard at it as well.. Edited March 23, 2008 by want2shoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddy_fuentes Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 I had 4 Para's at one time and still have 2 and they are very good guns, but IMHO they do not hold a candle to the Edge. The Para grip is a little too large for some people, however, I have not found it to be a problem. I just find that the Edge points better and is more controllable when firing. As I said earlier, the Edge is the easiest pistol I have ever shot. If you look around at a match you will find the guys that shoot Limited and Open favor the S_I guns. It is because they are that good. I got my first STI Edge about a year ago and I am thinking of selling off some of my 1911's and buying more STI pistols. I have some (15 or 16) real quality 1911's that I think don't match up to the Edge. Before you buy...do yourself a favor and check out different pistols. You'll see what matters to you and that will be all that counts. Good Luck, Buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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