Slide locks open W/ one round left in mag ?

[71Commander]

I bought three new STI 40 140mm mags W/ Grams base pads. All three mags cause the slide to lock open with one round left in it. Is this caused by the follower or the slide stop?

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance, Tucker.

[ffl]

my new Caspian 40 cal mags did the same thing.

the slide stop pin was hitting the follower and causing it to lock open.

Put a dummy round in the mag and slowly open the slide.

watch the slide lock and see if it moves when the bullet moves up into position at the top of the mag.

I had to machine some off the follower to allow the last load to chamber.

You could also use some Hi-spot blue applied to the under side of the slide stop with one round in the mag and cycle the gun to see if the hi-spot blue is transfered to the follower.

I once had a 200gr. RNFP 45 (mold from Lee) bullet hitting the slide stop and causing it to lock open. My SA 1911 worked great by by Armscor on would lock open. Same ammo. After extensive testing discovered the ogive of the bullet was not as great as even regular ball 230 gr. ammo and was hitting the slide stop. Go figure. Dremeled the under side slightly and now works like a charm.

100% reliable

dave

[R.Elliott]

The last round is probably hitting the slide stop on the way up. Take the slide off and slowly insert a mag with one round in it. You'll be able to see if it's to follower or the roundknocking it up.

[G-ManBart]

You can do a search on "one round left" and get a bunch of results. The short version is that it's the follower. Simply remove a little bit of material from the ledge on the follower and you'll be set. Take the slide off, put the slide stop back in, put a dummy round in the mag, put it in the frame and you'll see where you need to remove the material...I use a Dremel with a small bit and trim it down until the follower won't contact the slide stop until the mag is empty. It's really easy and once you've done one you'll know how much to take off the others. R,

Edited March 13, 2008 by G-ManBart

[TeamGE]

Hi Tucker,

slide lock function problems can be associated with how the mag tubes are shaped and how they fit the frame, how high the follower sits in the tube itself, and the shape of the slide lock paw, and how much tension is on the plunger. In other words, everything mentioned needs to be looked at. First thing I would do is take the top end of the gun off. Install the slide lock back into the frame by itself. Then insert a mag into the frame, with one round in the mag, and see how the follower and slide lock relate to each other. I would be happy to help by phone with the finer details of what to look for.

[71Commander]

I'm going to pull it apart and assess the situation. I never would have thought of taking the top off and looking at it that way.

Thanks.

[CDRODA396]

This is a very common problem with the STI and Grams followers. They sit higher in the mag due to the design to make more room for rounds. Brazos has an article titled, "Slide lock back or not" that shows where you need to dremel the follower to eliminate the problem.

You have to play with it and dremel a very little at a time until you dont lock back with one round left and do lock back with none. If you go to far, you wont lock back at all. Some people want this, and I eventually went to that by dremeling a little more.

Takes minutes.

http://www.brazoscustom.com/Home.htm

If this link doesnt take you straight to the article, look on the lower left side of the page and there is a link to a bunch of informative articles, the one you are looking for is the title above.

Edited March 13, 2008 by CDRODA396

[G-ManBart]

Hi Tucker,

slide lock function problems can be associated with how the mag tubes are shaped and how they fit the frame, how high the follower sits in the tube itself, and the shape of the slide lock paw, and how much tension is on the plunger. In other words, everything mentioned needs to be looked at. First thing I would do is take the top end of the gun off. Install the slide lock back into the frame by itself. Then insert a mag into the frame, with one round in the mag, and see how the follower and slide lock relate to each other. I would be happy to help by phone with the finer details of what to look for.

There must be an echo in here ...LOL....I'm just glad what I said was validated by the spring/follower/basepad king Beven, I swear I'll get rid of that one Dawson basepad I have the next time I place an order with Chuck!

Edit to add: PS, are the colored basepads going to be available soon????

Edited March 13, 2008 by G-ManBart

[boo radley]

So, I'll agree I'm ignorant, but for whom are these followers designed that they work without modification?

5 new STI mags, 5 new Grams follower/spring kits, and I had the 'lock-back-with-one' issue with 4 of them.

[TeamGE]

So, I'll agree I'm ignorant, but for whom are these followers designed that they work without modification?

5 new STI mags, 5 new Grams follower/spring kits, and I had the 'lock-back-with-one' issue with 4 of them.

boo radley,

I design and manufacture a Follower Kit that covers a wide range of mag tube designs (SPS/STI/SV), a wide range of calibers (9mm/38/40/45), and different length mag tubes. First priority for my design is function, then capacity. My follower is designed to be "aggressive" on slide lock, so one can tune for slide lock function the way they want it. With the wide range of applications, and the wide range of the tube tolerances themselves, you can see why some slide lock function tuning may be needed. As I stated before, if you have questions, you can call me.

[boo radley]

So, I'll agree I'm ignorant, but for whom are these followers designed that they work without modification?

5 new STI mags, 5 new Grams follower/spring kits, and I had the 'lock-back-with-one' issue with 4 of them.

boo radley,

I design and manufacture a Follower Kit that covers a wide range of mag tube designs (SPS/STI/SV), a wide range of calibers (9mm/38/40/45), and different length mag tubes. First priority for my design is function, then capacity. My follower is designed to be "aggressive" on slide lock, so one can tune for slide lock function the way they want it. With the wide range of applications, and the wide range of the tube tolerances themselves, you can see why some slide lock function tuning may be needed. As I stated before, if you have questions, you can call me.

Hiya TeamGE -- my fault, came out wrong, and that makes sense. Probably we all share the frustration that $60+ magazines, right from the start, can be capricious.

Steve

[BNorth]

I messed around with the followers for a bit. In the end, I ordered a new modified slide stop from Brazos. Now the slide never locks back.

[ipscbob]

ALL of my grams followers have always locked back at the last round initially. I dont consider this a defect as it allows me to control how they function by trimming the follower. I use a dremel like everyone else and it takes me about 5 minutes per mag. There is lots of extra meat in this area of the follower and I have always assumed that Beven designed it to be adjusted.

[71Commander]

I messed around with the followers for a bit. In the end, I ordered a new modified slide stop from Brazos. Now the slide never locks back.

This sounds like a great option.

Is it this one?

http://www.1911store.com/index.asp?PageAct...&ProdID=177

Edited March 16, 2008 by 71Commander

[chuckbradley]

I messed around with the followers for a bit. In the end, I ordered a new modified slide stop from Brazos. Now the slide never locks back.

This sounds like a great option.

If that is your objective then cutting the slide lock tab off the follower will work just as good.

[CDRODA396]

I messed around with the followers for a bit. In the end, I ordered a new modified slide stop from Brazos. Now the slide never locks back.

This sounds like a great option.

If that is your objective then cutting the slide lock tab off the follower will work just as good.

I agree that a few minutes with a dremel is a lot cheaper and easier than buying a new slide stop.

C71, just out of curiosity, did you mention what followers you have in the tubes...when I read your first post I saw "Grams base pads" and assumed you had Grams followers as well? Someone pointed my error and now I'm curious. THX

[JKSNIPER]

Maybe its just me being a new guy and all but with the amount of money you guys spend on those STI guns do you really think you should be fixing a problem with it?

IMHO that weapon should be sent back to the manufacturer with pics and a letter detailing what the problem is and the possible cause.

Again IMHO They should fix it, apologize for your inconvenience, and cover all shipping cost associated with this.

Otherwise I would take my business elsewhere.

Just my .02

JK

[G-ManBart]

Maybe its just me being a new guy and all but with the amount of money you guys spend on those STI guns do you really think you should be fixing a problem with it?

IMHO that weapon should be sent back to the manufacturer with pics and a letter detailing what the problem is and the possible cause.

Again IMHO They should fix it, apologize for your inconvenience, and cover all shipping cost associated with this.

Otherwise I would take my business elsewhere.

Just my .02

JK

If you use factory mags, this won't happen. From the sounds of it, the threadstarter has changed components on his mags. The stock followers work fine, but if you change the spring and follower to an aftermarket model like the Grams, you'll add a round or two of capacity. Change the basepad to something like Grams 4mm or the Dawson +1SNL and you get another round....takes the stock STI mag from around 17 to 20 (in .40). It only takes a couple of minutes to swap out the parts and then a couple of minutes to tweak the follower and you're set (assuming the mag worked to begin with). Stock 17 round mags just won't cut it in Limited when there are some of us with 21 round mags

[ipscbob]

Maybe its just me being a new guy and all but with the amount of money you guys spend on those STI guns do you really think you should be fixing a problem with it?

IMHO that weapon should be sent back to the manufacturer with pics and a letter detailing what the problem is and the possible cause.

Again IMHO They should fix it, apologize for your inconvenience, and cover all shipping cost associated with this.

Otherwise I would take my business elsewhere.

Just my .02

JK

Yup. It's just you.

[JKSNIPER]

I don't know ...

The guy said they were new STI mags and all three are giving him problems.

Sounds like defective merchandise.

JK

[71Commander]

I messed around with the followers for a bit. In the end, I ordered a new modified slide stop from Brazos. Now the slide never locks back.

This sounds like a great option.

If that is your objective then cutting the slide lock tab off the follower will work just as good.

I agree that a few minutes with a dremel is a lot cheaper and easier than buying a new slide stop.

C71, just out of curiosity, did you mention what followers you have in the tubes...when I read your first post I saw "Grams base pads" and assumed you had Grams followers as well? Someone pointed my error and now I'm curious. THX

Grams followers as well.

[CDRODA396]

Maybe its just me being a new guy and all but with the amount of money you guys spend on those STI guns do you really think you should be fixing a problem with it?

IMHO that weapon should be sent back to the manufacturer with pics and a letter detailing what the problem is and the possible cause.

Again IMHO They should fix it, apologize for your inconvenience, and cover all shipping cost associated with this.

Otherwise I would take my business elsewhere.

Just my .02

JK

JK,

You are right if we were talking about a stock gun with stock magazines. Even then the STI can be a little finicky until you get it running right.

When you decide to buy one, you should get into it knowing full well that despite the initial outlay, there are going to be some challenges associated with getting to a reliable gun, running 20 round mags so that on a 32 round stage you are changing mags once.

You can buy a "prepped" gun with tuned mags from Dave at DP or Bob at Brazo's or Dan at Shooter's, but you have a greater initial outlay. I bought mine fully knowing the "cost" I was going to pay to "learn" as I went in getting my gun to be what I wanted it to be....a sewing machine like fire breather fed by 20 round mags. Between reading on the internet, and the help of members from this forum, THANKS AGAIN HOWARD, I learned far more about the workings of the 2011 platform and its accessories than I would have had I opted to pick up one of the aforementioned guns. But I KNEW what I was getting into before I started and enjoyed the ride emmensly (spelling?).

There are other options that will allow you to compete and win depending on your skill level, its personal choice and no one will hammer you for doing it. Obviously the STI is not the gun for everyone.

Grams followers as well.

Thought so, just wanted to see if I needed to open mouth/remove foot!!! Hope you got enough info to get'em running.

[JKSNIPER]

CDRODA,

Ok thanks for the info.

Guys.....

I'm NOT knocking guys here or their dedication to this sport or their commitment in time/money or the knowledge level here.

I am new to this sport but not new to competitive shooting.

I shot in my first highpower rifle match at Camp Lejeune in 1980 and have shot in L.E./Military sniper competitions around the country.

I also own my own custom rifle for which I paid boo-coo bucks but it just about shoots itself if I do my part.

(Most shooting problems can be fixed by adjusting the nut behind the grip)

It just seems to me that if I pay $2000+ for a handgun thats supposedly a great top-level whiz bang buck rogers competitive weapon then the damm thing had better function and I don't care if I load freaking rocks in it when I pull the trigger it should go bang and cycle without a problem or I'm not gonna be a happy camper.

If I do something to farg that up (using bad or crappy ammo, cheap aftermarket mags, or other stuff) then shame on me, but if I'm using the manufacturer approved stuff and it will not reliably function then shame on them.

I'm lucky.

I'm in L.E. and my weapon is issued (Glock 19) and my ammo is free.

All I have to do is get my lazy ass to the range.

Maybe I'm beating the dead horse too much but it irks me when you guys spend your hard earned money on training/weapons/ and ammo only to have problems like these.

Gets my Irish up and since its right around St Patty's day I'm ready to fight for you guys!

Let me at 'em!

Seriously.....

Thanks for the education guys.

Its good to hear what you all have to say even if its critical (not sensitive and big shoulders here).

JK

[CDRODA396]

JK,

Not being critical at all, I LOVE this forum for the discussions that grow out of these threads, and just wanted to provide the other guy's view. Welcome to the forum by the way and enjoy!

[G-ManBart]

CDRODA,

Ok thanks for the info.

Guys.....

I'm NOT knocking guys here or their dedication to this sport or their commitment in time/money or the knowledge level here.

I am new to this sport but not new to competitive shooting.

I shot in my first highpower rifle match at Camp Lejeune in 1980 and have shot in L.E./Military sniper competitions around the country.

I also own my own custom rifle for which I paid boo-coo bucks but it just about shoots itself if I do my part.

(Most shooting problems can be fixed by adjusting the nut behind the grip)

It just seems to me that if I pay $2000+ for a handgun thats supposedly a great top-level whiz bang buck rogers competitive weapon then the damm thing had better function and I don't care if I load freaking rocks in it when I pull the trigger it should go bang and cycle without a problem or I'm not gonna be a happy camper.

If I do something to farg that up (using bad or crappy ammo, cheap aftermarket mags, or other stuff) then shame on me, but if I'm using the manufacturer approved stuff and it will not reliably function then shame on them.

I'm lucky.

I'm in L.E. and my weapon is issued (Glock 19) and my ammo is free.

All I have to do is get my lazy ass to the range.

Maybe I'm beating the dead horse too much but it irks me when you guys spend your hard earned money on training/weapons/ and ammo only to have problems like these.

Gets my Irish up and since its right around St Patty's day I'm ready to fight for you guys!

Let me at 'em!

Seriously.....

Thanks for the education guys.

Its good to hear what you all have to say even if its critical (not sensitive and big shoulders here).

JK

JK,

No worries....I think you'll find most folks here aren't easy to offend. I also think you'll find that many folks agree with you in large part that you should be able to buy a $2000 gun and have it run. With that said, the threadstarter confirmed that he added an aftermarket basepad, spring and follower to his STI mag tubes. So, it's a magazine parts problem, not really a gun problem. Those parts are what I'd consider the best available, but they require some minor tuning to get them to work perfectly for each particular application. The way they're made you can easily adjust the follower so that it won't lock back prematurely for several different kinds of magazines. I haven't seen a stock STI mag that would cause this problem. The reason people change the spring/follower and basepads is simply to gain extra capacity....usually 2 extra rounds and sometimes 3.

To use a car comparison, a Glock is a Toyota Camry....not overly fancy, gets the job done and is extremely reliable in stock form. An STI Edge is more like a racing car. They're built with the expectation that they'll require a little more user input to get the utmost performance out of them. You can't just expect to throw a set of Goodyear's from the Tire Rack on them and expect them to perform very well. Mine runs with pretty much anything I throw at it to include factory ball and hollowpoints. I still handload for it because I can load major PF ammo that has less recoil/muzzle flip and better accuracy all while being completely reliable.

I also have a small stack of Glocks (issued and purchased) that I carry every day. In the Winter I carry a G22 on the hip and a G27 in an ankle rig. In the Summer I swap a G23 for the G22 and keep the same G27 backup....so I'm not bashing them in any way. For competition I prefer a 2011 or 1911 as I can simply shoot them better than I can shoot a Glock. Different guns for different purposes, but both equal to the task in the right hands. R,