Production Trigger Pulls

[ebg3]

Which production gun has got the best DA/SA trigger pull? Is it possible to have a clean breaking DA/SA pull on a production gun? I've been dealing with an EAA Stock and I don't think it's possible to get this trigger pull down and not have some kind of problem(ie, light strikes or hammer follow). A clean breaking 2lb SA pull and a 6lb DA pull would be awesome. Am I too picky? Am I setting my sights too high? How about striker fired guns. What kind of pull can one get with an M&P or a Glock? 100% reliability is a must. Opinions?

[Cy Soto]

I would suggest you consider checking out a CZ 75B or an SP-01 with a trigger job by either Angus Hobdell or Matthew Mink These gunsmiths can drop the DA pull of any of these pistols to around ~6.5# and the SA to ~2# with a s-m-o-o-t-h feel. I recently bought an "Matt Mink" SP-01 and I have been using Winchester primers and (so far) I have not have any light primer strikes (600 rounds fired). The previous owner suggested that I switched over to Federal primers to make sure I had 100% reliablity which I will do as soon as I finish all the WSP that I have left.

I have heard that Bruce Gray can also take the DA/SA of any Sig down considerably. And anyone that has had their Sig firearms worked on by him says that it is incredibly smooth. I have never had the pleassure of shooting one of his firearms but I am defenitely curious enough that I may send an old P229 that I have to him for some work one of these days.

I currently shoot a Glock 35 in USPSA/IDPA which has a trigger pull of about 2.5# but it is was not 100% reliable with the Winchester primers so I went back to the factory striker spring which brough the pull back up to ~3.5#. Again, I will reinstall the lighter striker spring once I finish the WSP that I have left (about 1,000 to go). In any case, the trigger feel is still "mushy" so, regardless of how much money you spend on a trigger system for a Glock, it will always be a Glock trigger; but that is good enough for me...

Wih proper gusmith work both the XD and the M&P can be made to have really good triggers; some say that the end result is a deffinitive improvement over any Glock trigger. It may cost you a few dollars but it well worth the expense. For M&P work the person to go to is Dan Burwell and for the XD try Rich at Canyon Creek.

As you can see there are plenty of options available to you; it all comes down to personal preference.

[IL-SIG]

+1 for GGI. I shoot a 226ST 9mm in production that has been worked on by Bruce and his team. I have about 2,000 rounds through it and it runs great and is very smooth.

I have not measured the pull of the DA/SA, but when the buzzer goes off, I don't even notice the difference. I suggest reaching out to Bruce to see what he can do for you - you will not be sorry.

[double_pedro]

I think Cy Soto covered the bases very well. I would add my personal opinion that for a DA/SA it is probabky hard to find a better trigger than a CZ by Angus Hobdell or Matt Mink. The DA on a CZ can be made a super smooth, sub-6 lbs and still ignite Federal primers all of the time. Likewise, the SA can be set up wonderfully light and smooth, however to get the SA down to 2 lbs on an SP01, the trigger return spring itself must be lightened and this changes/reduces the "feel" of the trigger reset, IMO. Also, because of the design, the SA tends to have more creep than say a Sig.

Being a CZ clone, I would think the trigger on your EAA Witness would be similar to that of a CZ so you may want to contact Angus or Matt to see if they think they could get you EAA trigger closer to what you'd like.

[ebg3]

I think Cy Soto covered the bases very well. I would add my personal opinion that for a DA/SA it is probabky hard to find a better trigger than a CZ by Angus Hobdell or Matt Mink. The DA on a CZ can be made a super smooth, sub-6 lbs and still ignite Federal primers all of the time. Likewise, the SA can be set up wonderfully light and smooth, however to get the SA down to 2 lbs on an SP01, the trigger return spring itself must be lightened and this changes/reduces the "feel" of the trigger reset, IMO. Also, because of the design, the SA tends to have more creep than say a Sig.

Being a CZ clone, I would think the trigger on your EAA Witness would be similar to that of a CZ so you may want to contact Angus or Matt to see if they think they could get you EAA trigger closer to what you'd like.

I thought so too but the CZ trigger must be a little easier to work with. Thanks for the reply.

[ebg3]

It seems to me that to have a light pull I've got to use small pistol primers to avoid light strikes. Anybody have a light trigger pull and still use rifle primers?

[Loves2Shoot]

You might try one of our XD's Springer Precision The trigger can be pretty good. We use all new parts for the fire control. We also have a new extra power striker spring and it is looking real good at lighting off the hard primers.

If you use a CZ or Tanfoglio, you should have light hits either if it is done right. I've been shooting a SP01 for SSP in IDPA and it has a trigger that is under 6 DA and under 2 SA with no issues.

[revchuck]

It seems to me that to have a light pull I've got to use small pistol primers to avoid light strikes. Anybody have a light trigger pull and still use rifle primers?

I don't, and don't see any advantage to it. Small rifle primers might provide a benefit to Open shooters who operate a .454 Casull pressures, but don't have an upside for standard pistol loads, while presenting the possibility of breech face erosion at low pressures.

FWIW, my CZ-75B and Beretta 92 Brigadier are 100% with Federal 205s and WSRs with the factory mainsprings. Going to the 92D mainspring on the Beretta brings it down to about 95%. With a super-light trigger in the Witness, I doubt that you'd have any luck.

[Dave Gundry]

I love steel guns, but switched to a striker gun because I didn't want to deal with the 6-8lb DA pull followed by a 2lb SA pull.

In the CZ & EAA, the DA pull you are fighting is directly due to the mainspring. The problem, as you seem to understand, is that to get the DA pull lighter, a lighter mainspring is in order, which can reduce the likelihood of ignition. If you reload, then you can run softer primers and get ~6lb DA. But, if you shoot factory ammo, like I do, then you're cursed with ~8lb DA. Angus and Matt can work wonders on the CZ's, but I think the Tanfo's have a better design, and more folks seem to be able to run them lighter without as many problems. In my opinion, the best steel gun for production in the US is the Stock.

But, you can switch to a striker gun for a more consistent pull. They are all easily capable of ~2.5lb pulls. I have yet to feel a 2.5lb Glock trigger, but based on the mechanics of their respective mechanisms, Glocks should always be mushier than XD's and M&P's - which don't have to cam the striker back nearly as much. That means you can have an XD or M&P with a nice crisp trigger.

My DIY trigger on my M&P is just a hair under 4lbs right now. Good enough, but I would like to have it worked down to 3 and an internal overtravel stop installed to lengthen the trigger reach/release point.

[Shay1911]

DA pull is no big deal. It is almost always on the draw, which means you are at hyper speed anyway. The CZ/Tan design allows you to stage the trigger before you break the shot. You need about a 13lbs mainspring for a 6lbs pull and 15lbs for an 8lbs pull. Most of the time, if the DA is smooth, you wont feel much difference.

The guy I train with, Master level shooter, does easy .80 draws with the CZ, the DA does not bother him at all. He actually see it as a major advantage for dry firing as it keeps resetting. The other positive is that he is then left with a limited gun quality single action break.

The trick with the Tan trigger is to get the trigger bar to slide smoothly. You have a plunger above the mag release that presses up on the trigger bar. This is where a lot of the pull weight comes from. Take it apart, cut two-three coils off the plunger spring, polish the snot out of that plunger, plunger hole and the hammer looking top. It will make your DA much smoother.

EGW makes great sear and hammer for your gun, they are much better than stock parts.

There is a lot you can do to your gun before you look at others. They are crazy accurate, very ergonomic and you can get very nice trigger pulls out of them.

Remember that you may view the DA as a disadvantage, but that is just one shot. Your SA trigger is an advantage on all other shots.

[Paladin]

sig and beretta with the sig having a better da to sa transition. the s&w (3rd gen?) pretty good too with a fast reset..

[mike cyrwus]

Talking about the trigger only; whats the advantage of shooting a da/sa pistol for production when you can have an XD or M&P trigger?

Other than familiarity, I cant think of a reason.

[spook]

Talking about the trigger only; whats the advantage of shooting a da/sa pistol for production when you can have an XD or M&P trigger?

Other than familiarity, I cant think of a reason.

In USPSA I can't really think of a reason either. In IPSC, where the first shot has to be 5lbs. it makes sense.

[Shay1911]

The SP01, for example, is a front heavy, 41oz, low bore gun in 9mm. With the right ammo, there is almost no muzzle rise at all. The trigger on the CZ can break as crisp and as light as a Limited class gun on SA.

In other words, imagine shooting an STI 2011 in 9mm in Production. What you have to give up for that is staging your trigger pull on the draw.

Its a matter of taste, I guess. Sevigny won with a Glock 34 and Max was less than a point away from him with an SP01.

Edited March 10, 2008 by Shay1911

[ManNamedJed]

I have an SP01 and really like it. One of the great things about the CZ is its really not hard for you to tune the trigger yourself. Get the Comp hammer, and a 15lb mainspring. The only scary part is you have to fit the safety and the disconnector a bit for all to work right.

Many of the limited/open shooter at our club have checked out my CZ they are all really impressed with the quality if the trigger pull. It very light and smooth.

Note I did try the 13lb mainspring and got all kinds of light strikes. I didn't try any handloaded rounds with Federal primers though.

[ebg3]

Thanks for all of the feedback. It is great hearing the different opinions about production guns. I put a 14lb mainspring in my EAA and reduced my light strikes to 5-7% with rifle primers and 0% with small pistol primers. I"ll be loading pistol primers from now on. I may even be able to use the 13lb mainspring with pistol primers...I'll try that later. SA pull is still 2.25lbs and clean.

[sjz]

Reliability?- Glock

Trigger Pull?- the exact same, everytime you pull, no DA to SA transitions. One reason why I went to Glock from my Beretta 92fs.

Trigger weight?- with just a 3.5lb connector and a polish job (dremel, felt attachment, compund) you can get 3.5lb to 4lb trigger pull.

If you want less trigger pull weight - either you buy a trigger kit which includes reduced striker spring, safety spring and drop in trigger assembly or you can do the work yourself if you know what you are doing. Glocks are so easy to take apart and parts are very inexpensive and readily available.

The G17 or G34 are the most widely used models for IDPA.

[beretta bob]

I shoot a Beretta 92G Elite with a DA/SA pull at 5lb and 2.5lb. I have not had any light strikes or failure to ignite with either Win or Federal primers.