dpeters8445 Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 Hi Guys, I have a few questions regarding the 38 TJ. 1. I have read that the TJ has less case capasity then the 38 super. Is this true, and what does this do to your velosity. I'm assuming that even though the TJ case has less capasity, you would still be able to get a comparitable velosity, comparing to 38 super, with less powder do to there being more pressure do to the load being compressed more. 2. I have also read that if you have a 38 super you can change to TJ just by changing out extractor. Is this true? 3. Would I have to change out any parts in my Dillion 650 to convert from 38 super to TJ? The reason I'm doing this research is because I just got my first new open gun, built for 38 super, I have about 3000 rounds through it, and it runs flawlessly without a shock buff. When I put a shock buff in, I get a jam about every 200 rounds. This is the the style jam that the slide cycles back but does not push the cartridge out of the magizine. Instead, the slide stays in the open position resting against the top case rim in the magizine. This happens with all of my magizines. I feel that the rim on the 38 super cartridge is causing the rounds in the magizine to lock together. I feel that my dot tracks a lot better with a shock buff installed in the gun, but I don't want to give up any reliability. This is why I'm researching the TJ case. Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodneyLtd Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 I use 38TJ in my open gun. I can not answer the case capacity question since I have used TJ brass since the pistol was built. The TJ brass will work fine in a 38S chamber. You will have to re-adjust the extractor tension. If you are using a Dillon 650 in 38 sSuper just change to the .223 shell plate (shellplate #3) and you will be set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 dpeters8445, The Super brass isn't the cause of the problem. It ran perfect for 3,000 rounds!!! Then you changed the stroke length of the slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpeters8445 Posted May 9, 2003 Author Share Posted May 9, 2003 Flex,The Super brass isn't the cause of the problem. It ran perfect for 3,000 rounds!!! Then you changed the stroke length of the slide. Hi Flex, I understand that by adding a shock buff I am shortening the legth of the slide. By shortening the legth of the slide I think that sometimes the slide doesn't have enough power behind it to strip a round out of the magizine if the super case rims are interlocked. I'm just trying to figure out if I went to a rimless case, if a rimless case, such as the TJ, would be more forgiving then the super. I get much better dot tracking with the shock buff installed resulting in better 2nd shot placment. Your thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 There is smaller capacity in the TJ because of where the extractor fits is cut longer. This allows the case to be resized all the way (no buldge at the bottom). I'm running with the TJ, and also with Starline super comp brass. Depending on the powder, i.e. 3n38,3n37,n350, accurate #7, ect. there is minimal diference in load grains to make major, however with some of the slower powders, the case is too full to get a consistant OAL on the bullets. I'm with Flex 100% on this one, if your guns running without a shok buf, then take it out and throw it away! Changing to rimless brass will not fix that problem. Also you may get lucky and be able to use your regular extractor with TJ, but a super comp extractor is the best bet IMO. The best thing you can have in a match is a gun that is 100% reliable. If you have that already, don't mess it up. Murphy's Law: if you play with something long enough, you'll surely break it! Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpeters8445 Posted May 9, 2003 Author Share Posted May 9, 2003 The best thing you can have in a match is a gun that is 100% reliable. If you have that already, don't mess it up. Murphy's Law: if you play with something long enough, you'll surely break it!Mark Mark, I dont' no. I have been playing with my PP for many many years and I havn't broke it yet. Thanks for the input. PS. Does the TJ or SuperComp allow you to get an extra round in the magizine. Currently I can get 23 in a 140 with plus 2 basepad and 28 in a 170 with plus 1 basepad. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 I'm with you on the buff/dot connection. I added an additional buff to my gun and it brought the dot down nicely. The gun still runs fine. It would probly be worth it to me to find a way to make it work. There are different thicknesses of buffs out there. I use two blue wilsons... Caspian supercomp, 27 +1 in a fred craig biggie. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dump1567 Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Won't cutting a coil or two off the recoil spring help with this problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 As for Case capacity: When I switched from Super to Super comp, I wanted to see the difference. So, I loaded each case to the top with Winchester 540, then weighed each. I was able to get a full grain more with standard super than with super comp. I'd be willing to bet that TJ gets even less than the SC. As for differences in velocity, I've found that the velocity differences were not consistent. They seemed to vary more in relationship to how used the brass was. As for Capacity: I can get 28 rounds in my SV big stick with .38 Super, 29 with Super comp. dpeters8445: You didn't mention (I don't think) what kind of Gun you're shooting, that can make a difference. One of the issues with shooting .38 super (rimmed) is that over all length of the round becomes critical. If you make them too short, you risk improper rim stacking. What that means is the rim of the case of the top cartridge is below the rim of the one beneath it. So, when the round is stripped from the magazine the rim has to hop over the other rim to feed. If your slide is not going back as far, it has less momentum to pick the round up as well. I remember this being extremely critical in the Caspians. Steve said: Caspian supercomp, 27 +1 in a fred craig biggie Are you using a weld job, or the replacement tube? I was able to tweak one to get 29 .38 super comps, and the mag fit in the mag guage. If you're interested, I'll start a new thread on the procedure. -- Bucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpeters8445 Posted May 15, 2003 Author Share Posted May 15, 2003 Hey guys, I put another 1200 rounds threw my gun since I first started this thread. I noticed something that I did not notice before. When I get a jam the round is locked up agaist the lower part of the feed ramp. Sorry for the mis-diagnosis before. The probem happens more often with the shock buff installed, but now the problem is starting to happen once in a while even without the buff. This is happening with all of my mags. Is this a mag tuning prolem or what? Help please. Again I ask the same question. Would going rimless help out with this problem.? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 Use a stiffer recoil spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 Although using a stiffer recol spring would probably help, going rimless certainly alleviates a lot of issues. To demonstrate this, load a mag to capacity with 38 super. Now unload the magazine with one hand stripping the rounds off with your thumb. Now do the same with rimless .38 super. Notice the rounds come out MUCH easier with the rimless. The same effort is somewhat synonymous with what the slide needs to do to strip off the round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 [edit] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Certainly, if it works don't fix (break) it. The original poster is having a problem, and now it occurs with his original configuration (no buf). As for the OAL, it only becomes critical if you are having a problem. The "replacement" 170mm tubes seem to only work with rimless brass and they do require a bit of tuning. That being said, I had 3 that ran flawlessly and got me 29 +1. And they were USPSA legal (fit the mag gauge). Sometimes those 2 extra rounds really help - admittedly, usually due to poor course design. Using TJ brass requires a different shell plate and an extractor adjustment. -- Bucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpeters8445 Posted May 16, 2003 Author Share Posted May 16, 2003 Well, I ordered some TJ brass today, a new Aftec extractor, and a # 3 shell plate. I'll let you all know in a couple of weeks on my follow up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpeters8445 Posted July 1, 2003 Author Share Posted July 1, 2003 Update. Well I changed out the extractor and switched to TJ 6000 rounds ago. Knock on wood, not a single jam or failure to feed yet. My gun has run totally reliable since. The new Aftec extractor is a little tight, but I figure that I'll just leave it alone since it ejects everything. Now I am totally 100 % confident to load by big stick to its full capasity and not worry about a nose dive. I did not have to go to a faster powder changing from super to TJ. I was running 10.5 N-105 in the super cases and now I'm running 10.4 N-105 in the TJ case to get be 169 Power Factor. I did try a couple pounds of 3n38 with the TJ cases. 9.8 made 169 power factor, but I like the feel of the gun better with the N-105 so I switched back to it. Also the 3N38 flatened the primers pretty good and the N-105 doesn't flaten them at all. The 3N38 also flashed a lot more then the N-105. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Tj brass is getting to be like hens teeth. as for case capaCity and bullet veloCity they should be about the same as winchesters 9X23. for rimless 38 super, Starline is the only answer right now.. im just not really thrilled about any brass prices right now i have a feeling in 10 years rimless 38 super and regular supers will be out to pasture again...9mm is taking over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 LISTEN, when you add a buff & DON'T trim it down smaller than the guide rod head, it will drag on the slide & JAM. Trim it & the problems will go away. I have been telling everyone this for years but sometime they forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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