Shotgun Rule 5.2.2

[outerlimits]

in reading 5.2.2, it states the following:

"ammunition and speed loading devices, must be carried or worn on the competitor in safelt designed pouches, pockets, loops, clips or other suitable retention devices unless otherwise spcified in the course description. loops or clips fitted to the shotgun stock, forend or receiver, or to a sling fitted to a shotgun, to hold individual cartridges are specifically allowed".

so the question is interpreting the last sentence. what would INDIVIDUAL CARTRIDGES (emphasis added) imply? specifically, would this mean attaching a tec loader to the buttstock is a no-no since "individual" might reallt mean "single" shells?

[Neil Beverley]

This merely emphasizes that "individual cartridges" are OK. It does not prevent attaching a tec loader or any other form of speed loader fro being attached to the gun.

You're good to go.

[wide45]

Must the cartridges be individual? Could I glue several together, and load them as one unit?

[uscbigdawg]

I see what you're getting at Butch. Not the best wording.

Rich

[Neil Beverley]

Must the cartridges be individual? Could I glue several together, and load them as one unit?

I've seen it done and there is no problem with it.

I've already made a note to improve the wording of this rule (IPSC rules). Thanks for bringing it up.

[outerlimits]

Must the cartridges be individual? Could I glue several together, and load them as one unit?

I've seen it done and there is no problem with it.

I've already made a note to improve the wording of this rule (IPSC rules). Thanks for bringing it up.

while yer at it, "improve" the wording on open shotgun to limited 10.

[Neil Beverley]

Yeah, but ........... !

I already have. It's not a problem in the IPSC rules. Never has been. Open is open!

Actually I have been helping a bit back channel with the updating of the USPSA SG rules but I think you're stuck with the 10 round mag limit.

Having said that I KNOW the rules are still being worked on so if everyone was real quick and made enough noise ...... maybe, just maybe.

Likewise for Standard Division - start with 9 at the beep thereafter anything goes. It's MUCH cleaner.

They only listen to me on the boring stuff, but you guys might have a chance?

Edited January 4, 2008 by Neil Beverley

[ima45dv8]

Actually I have been helping a bit back channel with the updating of the USPSA SG rules ....

Thanks, Neil. More hands make light work and you have a metric ton of experience in this area.

[Joe4d]

I think it's pretty clear. You can use loops or clips that hold each shell. but not a dump pouch. Which leads me to a thought. Cowboy shotgun rigs have belts that hold two shells in each position to facilitate all the two at a time reloading. So am I led to believe a Cowboy belt isnt allowed ? I guess I was wrong maybe it isnt so clear after all.

[open17]

Must the cartridges be individual? Could I glue several together, and load them as one unit?

I've seen it done and there is no problem with it.

Several cartridges glued together and loaded as a unit??? Pictures?

[Neil Beverley]

I think it's pretty clear. You can use loops or clips that hold each shell. but not a dump pouch. Which leads me to a thought. Cowboy shotgun rigs have belts that hold two shells in each position to facilitate all the two at a time reloading. So am I led to believe a Cowboy belt isnt allowed ? I guess I was wrong maybe it isnt so clear after all.

Where does it say you can't use a pouch? Actually the rule names a pouch as a specfic option. It's no problem.

Why do you believe there is a problem with cowboy belts?

The bottom line is almost anything goes.

From the 2006 Europeans ........ Variations on a theme ...........

Edited January 5, 2008 by Neil Beverley

[Neil Beverley]

Must the cartridges be individual? Could I glue several together, and load them as one unit?

I've seen it done and there is no problem with it.

Several cartridges glued together and loaded as a unit??? Pictures?

In truth I don't know of anyone who has tried "several" but the first time I came across this was at the 2003 Europeans where members of the Swiss contingent glued pair of cartridges together to assist loading. I guess it will only help with certain techniques and with certain guns. The Benelli Nova is one that quickly comes to mind. I don't know how successful it is.

Sorry, no pictures but you can see in the other pictures above that setting up "pairs" of cartridges for loading is quite common. As are the breast plate contraptions you see, for holding the rounds together in pairs. It's not for me but some of the guys using this kit are getting reasonable results. None of the top guys use these, however.

Incidentally the concept of gluing the cartridges together was brought to me to consider from a rules perspective. Was it legal? The only possible consideration, without writing a specfic rule to bar the practice, was whether the glue could be considered a "loading device".

I was and am of the opinion that this does not constitute a loading device, nor do I see it as against any other rule or principle governing these divisions, and as such, as far as IPSC is concerned, I'm happy to allow the practice to continue in the Standard Divisions (and therefore in all divisions).