TannerB Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 First off I would like to thank everyone on here, Without yalls help this would have been much more difficult. So Thanks for everything. I think my race gun is finally done....for now. lol. Heres the specs. G35 Lone wolf 9mm conversion barrel Lone wolf 9 ultimate trigger stop Lone wolf 3.5 connector Heavier trigger spring Reduced striker spring Polished internals 13# recoil spring Lightning Strike S/S recoil rod Dawson F/O front sight Dawson Ice Mepro adj. Night sights rear Custom mag release Custom grip g17 ejector Im toying with the idea of polishing the slide. My only question now is what I call it? its not exactly a 35 any more, is it a 34? 34.5 maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TannerB Posted January 2, 2008 Author Share Posted January 2, 2008 My custom mag button, (im kinda proud of it, save 20 bucks making it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed K Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Very, VERY nice. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad glocker Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Very slick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Until you start scratching up the slide with practice, call it Paper Weight. (Nice pics!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 You going to shoot Limited/L10 minor with it or GSSF or? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Santiago Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Until you start scratching up the slide with practice, call it Paper Weight. (Nice pics!) ouch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 You going to shoot Limited/L10 minor with it or GSSF or? Would have to be GSSF or Open --- Caliber changes are not permitted in Limited --- unless Amidon is going to interpret the 2008 rules differently than he has the 2004 and previous rules..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpolans Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 (edited) You going to shoot Limited/L10 minor with it or GSSF or? Would have to be GSSF or Open --- Caliber changes are not permitted in Limited --- unless Amidon is going to interpret the 2008 rules differently than he has the 2004 and previous rules..... Isn't the caliber change ruling only for production? Either way, Was that the dumbest rule interpretation ever or what? No competitive advantage gained, but now, instead paying $100 for a conversion barrel, you're forced to buy a whole new gun (or at least a new top-end, if you can find one). Edited January 2, 2008 by mpolans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 The logic used in the interpretations I've seen was along the lines of Company X never made Model Y in Z caliber, therefore the conversion is not legal. I certainly don't see that it's any different than a 34, other than perhaps the extra weight in the barrel and the 35 on the side of the slide, but Amidon might feel differently. Wouldn't you want to know before getting to a big match? Heck, even at the local level, we pay prizes --- so if one of my competitors protested the gun, I'd have to check with Amidon and then enforce the ruling..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mboylan Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 (edited) Yeah, it would have to compete open in USPSA. GSSF is much more strict than production. Even an aftermarket connector or recoil spring will throw you into open. This blaster would have to compete against comps and optical sights in GSSF as well as USPSA. IDPA ESP is out too. That magwell won't allow it to fit in the box. The brass slug is illegal. The oversize mag release might be illegal as well. You going to shoot Limited/L10 minor with it or GSSF or? Edited January 2, 2008 by mboylan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TannerB Posted January 2, 2008 Author Share Posted January 2, 2008 Where I shoot, we follow the set up of USPSA but not the rules and regulations. Im about to start shooting with the IDPA guys and they said they don't care about my gun or setup. they will just throw me in the upper class. Im not trying to win money or anything. shooting is just fun for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vrmn1 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 I may be wrong and I am not JohnA but wouldn't it still be legal for limited with the special conditions? - Any complete handgun or components with a minimum production of 500 units by a factory and available to the general public. It is a legal caliber. The barrel is the same length as original. I mean how many STI frame Caspian slide 40 S&W's are built buy a factory anywhere. If it is a problem surface grind the markings off the side of the slide and tell them to pound sand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpolans Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 I may be wrong and I am not JohnA but wouldn't it still be legal for limited with the special conditions?- Any complete handgun or components with a minimum production of 500 units by a factory and available to the general public. It is a legal caliber. The barrel is the same length as original. I mean how many STI frame Caspian slide 40 S&W's are built buy a factory anywhere. If it is a problem surface grind the markings off the side of the slide and tell them to pound sand. Good point. If you got a replacement slide from Caspian for a 35 without the markings, no one would know anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpolans Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 The logic used in the interpretations I've seen was along the lines of Company X never made Model Y in Z caliber, therefore the conversion is not legal. I certainly don't see that it's any different than a 34, other than perhaps the extra weight in the barrel and the 35 on the side of the slide, but Amidon might feel differently. Wouldn't you want to know before getting to a big match?Heck, even at the local level, we pay prizes --- so if one of my competitors protested the gun, I'd have to check with Amidon and then enforce the ruling..... Yeah, but really, what's the difference in weight between a replacement G34 barrel and a replacement G35 barrel? The couple grains from the difference in width of the hood? I don't buy the whole '9x19 barrel in a G35 weighs more than .40 barrel' argument because the G34 is legal too. The decision just doesn't seem very well thought out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 .....what's the difference in weight between a replacement G34 barrel and a replacement G35 barrel? The couple grains from the difference in width of the hood? I don't buy the whole '9x19 barrel in a G35 weighs more than .40 barrel' argument because the G34 is legal too. The decision just doesn't seem very well thought out. No, the concern is that the replacement barrel for the 35 is heavier than the original 34 barrel --- because the replacement barrel needs to fill the hole left by the .40 caliber barrel in the 35 slide. Measuring my 34 barrel at the point where it exits the slide I come up with .571 inches. Measuring a G35 barrel at the same point yields a measurement of .588, a difference of 17/1000. I don't have a 9mm replacement barrel for the 35, or I could throw them both on a scale...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TannerB Posted January 3, 2008 Author Share Posted January 3, 2008 Yall's argument has me wondering now.....I wanna know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpolans Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 (edited) .....what's the difference in weight between a replacement G34 barrel and a replacement G35 barrel? The couple grains from the difference in width of the hood? I don't buy the whole '9x19 barrel in a G35 weighs more than .40 barrel' argument because the G34 is legal too. The decision just doesn't seem very well thought out. No, the concern is that the replacement barrel for the 35 is heavier than the original 34 barrel --- because the replacement barrel needs to fill the hole left by the .40 caliber barrel in the 35 slide. Measuring my 34 barrel at the point where it exits the slide I come up with .571 inches. Measuring a G35 barrel at the same point yields a measurement of .588, a difference of 17/1000. I don't have a 9mm replacement barrel for the 35, or I could throw them both on a scale...... Has anyone (besides Amidon) really argued that the 0.017"x4.5" (only about 4.5" since I'd assume the thickness of the barrels around the chamber area is identical) difference in barrel thickness resulted in a competitive advantage? Doing a little math based on 0.017" difference in diameter and assuming the density of steel is 7.85g/cm3, the difference in weight should be approximately 0.57 ounces or about 249 grains. I wonder if the all the aftermarket slides that are production legal will be held to such tight tolerances as to all fit within an 0.57 ounce window. Edited January 3, 2008 by mpolans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Wheter or not someone argued that it is a competitve advantage, it's all in the perception of an advantage. If you allow 40-9 conversion, that what is going to stop 45-9 conversion, which should add even more weight. Then why stop there, lets get a 6" gun and convert it to 9mm from larger caliber, that's gotta add more weight right? Then to be competitve becasue of the perceived advantage of the heavy barrel guns, your going to have to upgrade a stock pistol which goes against the spirit of the production division. Now there is no way for uspsa to police every gun and tear down and do a tech inspection, so the easiest thing to do is say NO, you can only do these limited modifications, that's it end of story. If you really want to get an answer, send your gun to NROI and let them review it to see if there is any "advantage" to whatever you want to do with your pistola. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 .....what's the difference in weight between a replacement G34 barrel and a replacement G35 barrel? The couple grains from the difference in width of the hood? I don't buy the whole '9x19 barrel in a G35 weighs more than .40 barrel' argument because the G34 is legal too. The decision just doesn't seem very well thought out. No, the concern is that the replacement barrel for the 35 is heavier than the original 34 barrel --- because the replacement barrel needs to fill the hole left by the .40 caliber barrel in the 35 slide. Measuring my 34 barrel at the point where it exits the slide I come up with .571 inches. Measuring a G35 barrel at the same point yields a measurement of .588, a difference of 17/1000. I don't have a 9mm replacement barrel for the 35, or I could throw them both on a scale...... Has anyone (besides Amidon) really argued that the 0.017"x4.5" (only about 4.5" since I'd assume the thickness of the barrels around the chamber area is identical) difference in barrel thickness resulted in a competitive advantage? Doing a little math based on 0.017" difference in diameter and assuming the density of steel is 7.85g/cm3, the difference in weight should be approximately 0.57 ounces or about 249 grains. I wonder if the all the aftermarket slides that are production legal will be held to such tight tolerances as to all fit within an 0.57 ounce window. I never said it made sense, or that I liked the logic. But that was the argument that was made at one time..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpolans Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 (edited) Wheter or not someone argued that it is a competitve advantage, it's all in the perception of an advantage. If you allow 40-9 conversion, that what is going to stop 45-9 conversion, which should add even more weight. Then why stop there, lets get a 6" gun and convert it to 9mm from larger caliber, that's gotta add more weight right? Then to be competitve becasue of the perceived advantage of the heavy barrel guns, your going to have to upgrade a stock pistol which goes against the spirit of the production division. Now there is no way for uspsa to police every gun and tear down and do a tech inspection, so the easiest thing to do is say NO, you can only do these limited modifications, that's it end of story. If you really want to get an answer, send your gun to NROI and let them review it to see if there is any "advantage" to whatever you want to do with your pistola. There's an easy way to stop your slippery slope and it's already de riguer in Production. Just add the 40-9mm caliber conversion as a permissive modification for those firearms that are chambered in both. Or, you could be even more restrictive and just limit it to Glocks (until conversion barrel makers petition to allow their barrels to be allowed). Unlike Limited or Open, where everything is allowed unless it is specifically prohibited, Production is pretty much the opposite; nothing is allowed unless it specifically permitted. Thus, I don't think your slippery slope argument holds much water. Further, say someone wants to get gamey and swaps in a .45-9mm conversion barrel in. First, I still don't think a one ounce difference in barrel weight would be a competitive advantage. Second, you could eliminate this by inserting language into the rules that would only allow those modifications that would not offer a competitive advantage with the final decision made up to the Match Director or Amidon. Out of curiosity, if you think the 0.50-1.00 ounce difference in barrel weight might offer a competitive advantage and justifies prohibiting conversion barrels, what is your take on the allowance of aftermarket slides? They just have to match the contour of the original slide; nothing requires that they weigh the same as the original slide. In fact, IIRC, nothing in the rules or Amidon's ruling says the aftermarket slide can't weigh substantially less than the original slide as long as it has the same contour. The only limitations regarding weight are that slide can't be milled for lightening and that the whole gun can't weigh more than 2.00 ounces over the original. Now if an aftermarket manufacturer were to adjust some of the internal dimensions or the metallurgy of the slide to come up with one that was substantially lighter, but still matched the contour of the original, he'd be okey-dokey under the current rules. Regarding the necessity of keeping the ruling intact because of the specter of tearing down every gun to do a tech inspection, I don't think it's a factor. As it is, if people really wanted to, they could cheat their asses off and 99.9% of the time, they won't get caught. For example, as someone else noted, if you ground off the "G35" on a slide while refinishing it, and your conversion barrel didn't have markings pointing it out, know one would know. Also, if someone were to use an aftermarket slide that didn't clearly state whether it was for a G34 or G35, they could use a conversion barrel and no one would know. Heck, if the aftermarket slide and barrel manufacturers' tolerances were wide enough in certain dimensions, it'd be pretty darn hard to say that someone was actually "cheating." Edited January 3, 2008 by mpolans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 <snip>...Production is pretty much the opposite; nothing is allowed unless it specifically permitted. <snip>...with the final decision made up to the Match Director or Amidon. Why do you think Production is different from Limited/L10? You setup criteria and declare a division and play by those rules. I am of the opinion that swapping slides and changing barrels and adding whatever do-hickey-of-the-month isn't going to take you from D class to GM. However, if you start to allow this modification for this gun or that gun, you no longer have a Production division. You can't make exeptions for one gun manufacturer without allowing another to do the same. By the same token, it is not USPSA or NROI job to "police" every competitor and their equipment. I have faith that most shooters I know have integrity and don't want to win by cheating or doing something that goes against the rules. Shoot Limited or L-10 if you want to dink around with your gun, better yet see how you do in Open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TannerB Posted January 3, 2008 Author Share Posted January 3, 2008 So experts....what class does it fall in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 (edited) So experts....what class does it fall in? As it sits you can shoot it in Limited or Limited 10 scored minor. With the .40 barrel you could shoot Limited or Limited 10 major or minor depending on the load you choose. If you run the .40 barrel and you take the magwell off, replace the extended mag release with the stock one, and run standard mags you could shoot iti in Production. Edited January 3, 2008 by smokshwn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 With the magwell, it's automatically in Limited or L-10 (shooting minor). I have no problem with that, but Amidon is the key. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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