Any Freelance Reloaders out there ?

[Cal Brady]

This is going to sound very lazy but I'd love to find an experienced IPSC Open Major reloading person who can make up batches of 38 Super and 38 Super Comp in major for me. I could send the new cases, powder, primers, and bullets and the data/specs and would be more than willing to fork over a tidy profit to anyone who feels like tackling this. Any takers ?

I know I can't be the only person who is trying to fit this sport in between matches, lots of practice, running several businesses, hopefully successfully, and spending enough time around my wife she doesn't think we've been divorced.

There's just got to be a company or individual who does this. We had a place in North Hollywood, CA that did this 20 years ago but I can't find them any more.

I've shot some Atlanta Ammo 38 Super Comp in major lately and it is great factory stuff but I'd really like to be able to hit the specs that Brazos wants for the loads in my new SX. I can fine tune the load to me and the gun but after that I could really use someone to knock this stuff out in bulk for me.

Thanks

Cal

[big daddy]

Talk to John at pony express in Minnesota.651-483-9406 He might or might not but he would be worth a try.

[Putty]

I do not remember the name, but there was a company in Montana that would load , to spec, any round you might like. They had a bunch of 1050's set up in a warehouse. I will get back to you.

[BayouSlide]

Check with Danny Wisner at Atlanta Arms & Ammo.

www.atlantaarmsandammo.com

(770) 464-2203

[mlmiller1]

You won't find just any regular guy that is willing to reload ammo for you due to the fact you need a ffl license & pay a tax or fee on every round you load & sell. If you get around & make some friends at some matches, you might find a buddy that would let you use his loader or something along those lines but just to load ammo for you for a fee is probably not going to happen. If it does, don't post about it on here.

MLM

[Flexmoney]

I closed the other thread. I'll keep this one open as long as suggestions for loaders is to legit businesses.

-Admin

[Paul Santiago]

From the ATF Online site.

"(H4) Is a person who reloads ammunition required to be licensed as a manufacturer? [back]

Yes, if the person engages in the business of selling or distributing reloads for the purpose of livelihood and profit. No, if the person reloads only for personal use.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a) (i) and 923(a), 27 CFR 478.41]

"

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/index.htm

[Hank Ellis]

First off, I'm not a lawyer but I've been well educated by a FFL holder and IPSC shooter who I trust and what he does has passed muster with the BATFE multiple times. All discussion below is strictly within the confines of ammunition reloading and not to be taken out of context.

There are rulings in the BATFE and the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau (TTB) regulations that allow custom reloading without licensing or taxes paid.

When I reload, I purchase the components and own them. In legal speak I own title to them. When I assemble those components I become the manufacturer. Most IPSC shooters reload. Trap shooters reload. Hunters reload. We're all manufacturers.

---------------------------

27CFR53.11 Meaning of terms.

Manufacturer. Includes any person who produces a taxable article from scrap, salvage, or junk material, or from new or raw material, by processing, manipulating, or changing the form of an article or by combining or assembling two or more articles. The term also includes a “producer” and an “importer.” Under certain circumstances, as where a person manufactures or produces a taxable article for another person who furnishes materials under an agreement whereby the person who furnished the materials retains title thereto and to the finished article, the person for whom the taxable article is manufactured or produced, and not the person who actually manufactures or produces it, will be considered the manufacturer.

---------------------------

Note the part of definition where it starts, 'Under certain circumstances,'. What this means is that if I brought my material to a person, I retain title to the material, and he made or assembled the article. The person who made the article isn't the manufactuer, I am.

So, being a manufacturer, do I need a license? If it's for personal use, no. We're not engaging in business. Do I need to pay taxes? Again, no. We're not engaging in business. Ref: 27CFR53.112 and 27CFR478.41.

Under the regulations if Joe Shooter comes to me with his bag of brass and asks me to reload it for him. I can as long as I return the exact brass back to him. No licenses. No taxes. As long as Joe Shooter uses it for personal use and doesn't sell it, he doesn't need a license or pay tax either.

More references:

http://www.ttb.gov/firearms/reference_guide.shtml

Section III, B, Definition of Manufacturer

Section III, E, Ammunition Reloaders

Section VII, A, Personal Use

Section VII, A, Ammunition Reloaders

http://www.ttb.treas.gov/firearms/ammunition.shtml

Ammunition Reloaders

http://www.ttb.gov/firearms/faqs.shtml

Section Ammunition Reloaders

[Hank Ellis]

Now that we've determined what Cal wants to do is 100% legal with no gummit taxes or paperwork, anybody willing to step up to the plate?

I'm not qualified as I have no experience in those calibers, don't shoot Open, and don't have the free time anyway.

[ONG]

Hank Ellis said: I'm not qualified as I have no experience in those calibers, don't shoot Open, and don't have the free time anyway.

Cal Brady said: I can fine tune the load to me and the gun but after that I could really use someone to knock this stuff out in bulk for me.

I guess I'll flaunt my ignorance here. If Cal sends you the materials, sends you the specs, won't you simply follow the recipe? Run some through the chronograph to double check results and then start cranking them out when Cal gives you the thumbs up?

[Cal Brady]

Wow,

This is one of the things I like about this forum. Ask an innocent (or dumb) question and look what happens.

Had no idea there were so many issues here but it appears this CAN be done legally if

the shooter supplies the supplies (shot brass being preferable) and the reloader is not making a profit or livelihood out of the deal (like maybe ONLY being reimbursed for the wear and tear on the reloading press ).

In any event, found a solution...

There are FFLed Ammo Manufacturers who can make custom brews up as well.

thanks for your 2 cents folks.

Cal

[DonT]

Under the regulations if Joe Shooter comes to me with his bag of brass and asks me to reload it for him. I can as long as I return the exact brass back to him. No licenses. No taxes. As long as Joe Shooter uses it for personal use and doesn't sell it, he doesn't need a license or pay tax either.

I'm no lawyer either but if you charge Joe Shooter a fee for assembling his components for him then you are operating a business and in most states required to collect the appropriate excise tax and pay local, state, or federal taxes as any business. Not familiar with BATFE taxes.

And if you're not charging Joe Shooter a fee for loading his ammo for him, why would you do it? Unless he is just a really good friend.

Just thought I'd add another perspective and my own .02 worth.

DonT

[Hank Ellis]

-snip-

Had no idea there were so many issues here but it appears this CAN be done legally if

the shooter supplies the supplies (shot brass being preferable) and the reloader is not making a profit or livelihood out of the deal (like maybe ONLY being reimbursed for the wear and tear on the reloading press ).

The reloader can make a profit off the manufacturer. A good one if he wants. Probably could make a living out of it if he wanted to.

Think about it this way. I'm Winchester, the big corporation. I want to produce some totally top flight competition ammuntion that only personal attention can make. I want BubbaBobs Reloading to load the ammunition. I take my brass to Bubba. Bubba segregates the brass from all other brass from his clients. Bubba lovingly loads the ammo and ships it back to me, Winchester. Bubba charges me $50 / 100 + cost of bullets, powder and primers but I want to win Camp Perry at all costs. I pay it. At Camp Perry me, Winchester, keeps all the ammo for my team of full time competition shooters. I win Camp Perry. Nobody cares.

Since Winchester retained title to the brass and Bubba did his part to segregate the brass, Bubba doesn't need a license or pay taxes. Since Winchester didn't sell any of the ammo, Winchester doesn't need a license or pay taxes either. That personal use thing.

Scale it up a bit and you can see how the rules allow corporations to outsource in the ammunition business. Scale it down and you can see that a USPSA Open shooter can go to 'Dead Head' Fred who also shoots Open to make his ammo for him.

A couple of decades ago there was local guy who had a Camdex reloader who did custom reloading for us USPSA and PPC types. At that time progressive reloaders we enjoy today really hadn't caught on. Some of us like me had no place to reload even if we wanted to. After buying a couple thousand .45 brass from somewhere I took it to my reloader in .30 cal ammo cans. I still remember looking around the shop and seeing ammo cans marked with the client, and the load info here and there. I left the sport and came back 15 years later. To help me get restarted a local shooter did my reloading for $25/1000 + components on his 1050 for a few months till I could get going on my own. This local shooter is the one who educated me on the BATFE rules. He's also the one who turned me to the Camdex reloader guy 20 years ago.

In any event, found a solution...

There are FFLed Ammo Manufacturers who can make custom brews up as well.

thanks for your 2 cents folks.

Glad you found a solution. How, about posting the list of manufacturers for someone later to find with the Search function.

[Hank Ellis]

Under the regulations if Joe Shooter comes to me with his bag of brass and asks me to reload it for him. I can as long as I return the exact brass back to him. No licenses. No taxes. As long as Joe Shooter uses it for personal use and doesn't sell it, he doesn't need a license or pay tax either.

I'm no lawyer either but if you charge Joe Shooter a fee for assembling his components for him then you are operating a business and in most states required to collect the appropriate excise tax and pay local, state, or federal taxes as any business. Not familiar with BATFE taxes.

I'm talking strictly about the exemption on BATFE exise taxes on loaded ammunition.

If I operated a business that specializes in custom reloading then sure I'd have to collect and pay state and local sales taxes. Certainly had to do it in my parachute rigging business I operated out of my home. The sticky point if I operated a custom reloading business is to ensure that my clients didn't sell a single round on the open market. At which point they would be liable for the exise tax. Being the reloader doesn't get you completely off the hook. One of those 'you should have known he was selling the ammo' sort of things. The tax collectors can make life difficult for you.

Doing one or two buddies to help them get started in the sport is more hobby than business. Not even a blip on the radar.

[WDB]

Doing one or two buddies to help them get started in the sport is more hobby than business. Not even a blip on the radar.

Man, that just doesn't sound right. LOL