HELP - Taking my nephews shooting

[Loves2Shoot]

My brothers youngest son (11) is showing an interest in hunting, he already LOVES fishing. The other day he comes over and ask me if I can take him hunting, so my brother and I talked about getting them some 20 gauge shot guns. Yesterday we took them shopping, but we didn't have any luck find a 20 gauge semi autos under $1000 that we liked.

The boys were so excited we decided to take them out shooting and see how they handled some semi auto rifles to see how they did with them and we grabbed a couple Benellis M1S90's in case the did well with the rifles. Well, it was basically their first time shooting real rifles, and I was amazed at how well they did. Then they wanted to try the shotguns, we were a bit cautious as they weigh maybe 60 and 70 pounds soaking wet, but I loaded one 12 gauge round in and let them give it a go.

Long story short, the youngest one (who has no fear of anything) got moved around quite a bit, but shot up every last round we had, the 13 year old (who is small for his age but is very coordinated and athletic) could shot 4 rounds in a row without it moving him at all. They both had a blast!!! On the way home, the youngest boy tells my brother he need to buy them some guns so they can go hunting

Here is my question to folks who have kids this age and hunt:

What are the pros and cons of a 12 gauge (which we have lots of nice ones) versus getting them their own guns in 20 gauge for hunting birds. I think the AR15's are fine for small game and the AR10 would works for mid-sized game, but we are looking for input from folks who have already been there done that.

Thanks for your replies in advance and have a MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!

[Jaxshooter]

A 12 guage shotgun shooting a 1 oz load vs a 20 ga shotgun shooting an equilivant 1 oz load(same fps etc.), the felt recoil will be less from the 12 guage gun than the 20. As long as you watch the loads you buy the 12 guage guns should be fine. The problem I see frequently is people buying 20 guage loads for kids that are way to hot thinking it will be ok because it is only a 20 guage. A goo light 7/8 oz or 1 oz load in the 12 guage should work fine.

[JD45]

Depending on the weight of the gun, a soft 1oz. 12ga. load can feel similar to a 20ga. target load.

My pick would be a used Remington 1100 LT-20 (20ga.). With light 7/8oz. skeet loads it is a pleasure to shoot. They can be found for in great condition for $475-$500.

However, if the kids are capable of holding less than a pound more in gun weight, it is sometimes smarter to go ahead and buy a 12ga.(because of the versatility factor). If the 12 will cycle a 1200fps 1oz. load, and is gas operated, most kids will have no trouble.

The new and old Beretta autos are great. So are the the older Remington 1100's. I'm simply naming a couple that I've seen work with light loads. There are other autos that work well, but I've seen some brands that seem to have a habit of breaking around the 10,000 round mark. Of course the Rem. 1100 has also been known to break at around the same round count. Mine broke a firing pin and a lifter pin at over 15,000 rounds, but I can't hate a gas gun(12ga.) that will cycle a 7/8oz. @1200fps load 99.95% of the time(the 1 ouncer was slightly more reliable).

Again, if I were buying a new gun, and assuming that it fit the shooter okay, I would grab a Beretta in either gauge of choice.

[North]

+1 for the 12 gauge. Most of your 20's will be lighter than the 12, so you lose that weight for recoil management.

[Jack Suber]

My brothers youngest son (11) is showing an interest in hunting, he already LOVES fishing. The other day he comes over and ask me if I can take him hunting, so my brother and I talked about getting them some 20 gauge shot guns. Yesterday we took them shopping, but we didn't have any luck find a 20 gauge semi autos under $1000 that we liked.

The boys were so excited we decided to take them out shooting and see how they handled some semi auto rifles to see how they did with them and we grabbed a couple Benellis M1S90's in case the did well with the rifles. Well, it was basically their first time shooting real rifles, and I was amazed at how well they did. Then they wanted to try the shotguns, we were a bit cautious as they weigh maybe 60 and 70 pounds soaking wet, but I loaded one 12 gauge round in and let them give it a go.

Long story short, the youngest one (who has no fear of anything) got moved around quite a bit, but shot up every last round we had, the 13 year old (who is small for his age but is very coordinated and athletic) could shot 4 rounds in a row without it moving him at all. They both had a blast!!! On the way home, the youngest boy tells my brother he need to buy them some guns so they can go hunting

Here is my question to folks who have kids this age and hunt:

What are the pros and cons of a 12 gauge (which we have lots of nice ones) versus getting them their own guns in 20 gauge for hunting birds. I think the AR15's are fine for small game and the AR10 would works for mid-sized game, but we are looking for input from folks who have already been there done that.

Thanks for your replies in advance and have a MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!

My Dad ruined me by starting me with a 16 guage DB when I was 9 and a 30-30 when I was 10. The kick and blast of both created a flinch that took years for me to break. When my son got old enough to hunt, I had an old Army sniper teach me how to teach him. He told me to first, let him practice in a way that will let him focus on shooting and not recoil and blast. So, that meant teaching him to shoot from a rest with a shoulder pad and double hearing protection (muffs and plugs). It paid off. My son shot his first deer 2 weeks from his 8th Bday and killed his first pig when he was 10. He started with a single shot NEF 243. I also had a 20 ga. NEF in the same set-up. We also got a .22 NEF in the same model for plinking. Now he has a Ruger M77 Lightweight in 243 and a Remington 1100 Youth Model in 20 ga. He is lethal with both. John was hitting doves with the single shot when he was 8 (I NEVER hit doves with a single shot). The last dove hunt we went on, he limited - I did not.

Again, the "KEY" is letting a child practice and not worry about noise or kick. "Double plug" and a shoulder pad (in addition to the recoil pad) are a must if the child is to learn the fundamentals. Here are some pix. John, 2 weeks before his 8th Bday with his 1st deer (110 yds - 1 shot) and 10 years old with his 1st pig (200lbs - 1 shot behind the ear on a moving pig at 75 yds). The pig picture is in SWFA's 2007 catalog. Both were taken with his NEF 243.

Edited December 25, 2007 by Jack Suber

[HoMiE]

I didn't know you hunted? Let me know if you want to try any of my rifles, maybey a .300 win mag or .338 lapua?

[Loves2Shoot]

Thanks for all the feedback guys!!!

I was thinking about 22's and 410's until they got their skills up, but we want to give them a chance of getting a bird here and there.

Homie,

Dude, those are pansy guns, wait and try the Merkel .470 nitro express or the new Merkel .500 nitro express side by side. Oh wait, you don't weigh enough to shoot those guns They sure are pretty, but they really pack a punch.

I used to hunt and will be getting back into it now the boys are getting old enough, and we can chase ducks now I have the boat.

[G-ManBart]

A 12 guage shotgun shooting a 1 oz load vs a 20 ga shotgun shooting an equilivant 1 oz load(same fps etc.), the felt recoil will be less from the 12 guage gun than the 20. As long as you watch the loads you buy the 12 guage guns should be fine. The problem I see frequently is people buying 20 guage loads for kids that are way to hot thinking it will be ok because it is only a 20 guage. A goo light 7/8 oz or 1 oz load in the 12 guage should work fine.

+1

When I was a kid my Dad bought me a 20ga double to learn with. Well, we both learned something from that experience. It was hard to hit with and because it was light the recoil was pretty sharp. Eventually I got pretty decent with it, but it was frustrating for both of us initially. The first time I tried a friend's Browning Auto-5 with light loads I was smoking birds one after the other. From then on we always introduced friends to clay bird shooting by having them shoot a 12ga auto (normally an 1100) with light 1oz loads.

My wife recently decided she wanted a shotgun and we ran into a similar problem. She's quite petite and has a shoulder that gives her problems. Every 12ga we could find, including youth models, was just too heavy for her to hold comfortably. I found that Charles Daly makes a very light 20ga auto in a youth model (20" barrel). It's no 11-87, but it seems to run just fine and shoots pretty well. It's light enough that she can handle it and the recoil didn't bother her with standard 2 3/4" loads. We'll just have to take our time and work upwards from shorter ranges and slower birds so that she doesn't get discouraged....she asked if we can go shoot it again soon, so that's a good sign!

Edited December 25, 2007 by G-ManBart

[HoMiE]

Get them a single-shot .22, fun and cheap to shoot!

I don't shoot anything with "nitro" in the name, those aren't rifles, those are shoulder mounted cannons.

[SA Friday]

I would go with a 12 ga semi-auto vs the 20 ga with some caveats. If they are capable of a light 12 ga load, they will grow into the heavier rounds. With a 20 ga, they will eventually outgrow it. But with this said, it really depends on what birds they are hunting and how they are hunting them. If they are blind hunting and simply not carrying the shotgun except for shooting, the bigger gun is the way to go. If they are field hunting, walking long distances for hours, the gun weight will destroy them quick. Also, upland hunting is awesome fun with a 20 ga and they can use it for life and not outgrow it. Shooting greater Canadian Geese with a 20 ga can be the most discouraging hunting on the planet. The best all-around gun I have found for a smaller person (my wife) was a Fabarm Red Lion. It's light and really caters to small women by porting, gas chamber, lightening the stock and receiver. I personally take this 12 ga pheasant hunting whenever I can. Awesome gun for it.

For a rifle, I would recommend a T/C Encore (or their new version of this gun). Pick a good light caliber (243 or 7mm-08) and a new caliber barrel is only a couple hundred dollars. They also can be shot by right or left hand shooters without issue. A follow-up shot takes a bit more time, but can easily be done. You can also get a 22 cal barrel for it for practicing with cheaply.

[HSMITH]

A 12ga 1100 is as soft as they get, especially with light 1 ounce and 7/8 ounce loads. The 7/8 ounce loads run a stock 1100 fine if you load with slower powders, Green Dot on the fast end and on out to Longshot. My 3.5" SuperX2 will run slow powder 7/8 ounce loads with the right handloads and barely kicks at all.

A 223 bolt rifle or an AR with a comp would be a good way to start on centerfire, no recoil but plenty of noise. The noise can be abated with plugs and muffs, then you can introduce more noise OR more recoil as it becomes prudent. Noise and recoil together is a BAD idea.