10mmdave Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 There are other factors involved that could have lead to the breakage. Like what, Dave? From my original qoute : Some folks have used the C&S firing pins for years without any problems.I don't believe you know how all those broken pins were installed or treated. There are other factors involved that could have lead to the breakage. to expand on my original statement, you don't know if the pin was modified in any way, installed in a revo with a close to stock main spring pressure, dry fired without snap caps at that heavy spring pressure or even single actioned a ton of times. I'm sure any gunsmith can tell you stories of the guy that brings a gun in saying, "it's broke and I didn't do anything to it" only to find all sorts of bad things inside. And I'm not saying that some of the C&S pins have not broken when all has been done to prevent it, let's face it, things break ! but to say that C&S pins are junk seems a bit harsh! That's exactly why I've been consistently warning people against the junk C&S pins for several years. Sowhat about this ?? Nothing against Randy and his product, but I had mis fires right off the bat with the pin I got from Randy. I replaced it with a S&W new stock pin and had no more problems. No idea why it happened but the fix was easy. So from RGS' experiance, are we to assume Randy's pin's are "junk" since his pin didn't work, it's been posted on this wonderful forum and RGS is a fellow contributer that I admire and respect ! what other conclusion should I come up with Of course I'm sure Randy will fix the problem, which begs the question, did C&S replace their broken firing pins or did thier users just throw them out and complain on the internet ! (Oh, RGS, when you find that pin, send it back to Randy instead of me, maybe he'll send you one of his new ones to replace it) so in closing, all I'm saying is don't blanketly condem a product (or individuals that use said products with out issues), some folks use things that others don't and it all works out fine. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 (edited) My comments regarding the extended firing pin are based on my personal experience with three (3) defective pins, and I know they were installed correctly and not abused in any way. Many other contributors to this forum, and others, have echoed my experience. There is clearly a problem with the product. Forum guidelines do not allow me to fully express my perspectives, based on my personal experience, on C&S and its owner. To put out such a product for competitive use is unconscionable enough, but it's truly scary to consider that many people have installed them in revolvers used for defensive purposes. Brush me off if you wish, but do so at your own peril. Edited December 4, 2007 by Carmoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10mmdave Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 My comments regarding the extended firing pin are based on my personal experience with three (3) defective pins, and I know they were installed correctly and not abused in any way. Many other contributors to this forum, and others, have echoed my experience. There is clearly a problem with the product. Forum guidelines do not allow me to fully express my perspectives, based on my personal experience, on C&S and its owner. To put out such a product for competitive use is unconscionable enough, but it's truly scary to consider that many people have installed them in revolvers used for defensive purposes. Brush me off if you wish, but do so at your own peril. Brush you off I don't think that's what I conveyed in my last post ? You had 3 defective pins, I've had 3 good pins, maybe I got the good batch and you got the bad batch, or did I get the only good pins !?! I hope C&S replaced them for you or reimbursed your $$ And yes contributors have echoed your experiences here, but the BE forum does not the world make, (sacrilegious I know, flog me later) not sure how many folks responded in the negative, but we all know, most people don't complain about things that don't break. I don't know that I'd use a C&S firing pin or Randy's for that matter in a defensive gun, I was always taught to leave the protection guns alone except for maybe a little smoothing of the action. But others are free to do what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I'm just trying to help people avoid a problem that could ruin a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 B4 this goes too far, I need to clarify something. I am not adverse to anyone using Randy's products. They are well made and he stands behind them. I had bad luck with one firing pin in one revolver. I have not tried it in others because I sold all my other revolvers that used the new style pin. As for the C&S pin, I have never had a problem with them. Randy is great to deal with and easy to contact. I highly recommend him and the gear he sells. But like his buddy Dave Hearth, he ain't cheap I guess you get what you pay for. Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S&WIowegan Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I love it when carmoney gets in a peeing contest He's sharpening his litigation skills. That's one reason why I like to hire him as my lawyer I can't wait to hear in person what he really thinks of Bill Laughridge and C&S products. Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SV_shooter Posted December 4, 2007 Author Share Posted December 4, 2007 Leave it to California to have a drop-test that makes it so the gun only goes off half the time..... and this is a CA gun I speak of.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10mmdave Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I'm just trying to help people avoid a problem that could ruin a match. And that's a noble effort Mike, we all thank you for looking out for us. But you originally stated: That's exactly why I've been consistently warning people against the junk C&S pins for several years. (Wonder how many times we have to hear from different shooters who have experienced broken C&S pins before people quit defending them??) I don't feel I'm defending "junk C&S pins", I'm only relating my positive experience with them. And I would hope that when someone installs a new part they do try it out with a few hundred rounds before a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 (edited) I love it when carmoney gets in a peeing contest He's sharpening his litigation skills. That's one reason why I like to hire him as my lawyer I can't wait to hear in person what he really thinks of Bill Laughridge and C&S products. Bob. Q: What happens when a lawyer takes Viagra? A: He gets taller. :lol: Edited December 4, 2007 by Round_Gun_Shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 And I would hope that when someone installs a new part they do try it out with a few hundred rounds before a match. Very good point, Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I can't wait to hear in person what he really thinks...... It's to the point I become enraged everytime I see somebody with a handle-bar mustache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 On coming home from a late night at the office, the partner at a presigious law firm discovered that his basement was flooded. He summoned a plumber. The plumber arrived soon afterward, with a spare set of overalls and a cap that said "Blue Collar Guy". The lawyer, still dressed in his an expensive suit, silk tie, and gleaming wingtips, chuckled. "I like your hat," he said. "But you're the first plumber I've met who brought a change of clothes to a job." The plumber smiled. The plumber went down into the basement, and the lawyer heard him working downstairs. Before too long, the plumber came back upstairs. "I'm almost done down there. I'm going to write up your bill, then I'm going to go out to my truck for a tool I need to finish up." The plumber added, "The overalls and hat you asked me about, they're not for me. I'm looking for a new assistant, and I was hoping you might know somebody who wanted the job." The lawyer responded, with more than a hint of condescension, "I'm a lawyer. Who would I know who would want to work as a plumber?" The plumber shrugged, and handed the lawyer his bill. A couple of minutes later, when the plumber returned from his truck, found the lawyer, dressed in the hat and overalls. "I had a chance to look over your bill while you were out," the lawyer said. "You found yourself an assistant." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.carden Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 On coming home from a late night at the office, the partner at a presigious law firm discovered that his basement was flooded. He summoned a plumber. The plumber arrived soon afterward, with a spare set of overalls and a cap that said "Blue Collar Guy".The lawyer, still dressed in his an expensive suit, silk tie, and gleaming wingtips, chuckled. "I like your hat," he said. "But you're the first plumber I've met who brought a change of clothes to a job." The plumber smiled. The plumber went down into the basement, and the lawyer heard him working downstairs. Before too long, the plumber came back upstairs. "I'm almost done down there. I'm going to write up your bill, then I'm going to go out to my truck for a tool I need to finish up." The plumber added, "The overalls and hat you asked me about, they're not for me. I'm looking for a new assistant, and I was hoping you might know somebody who wanted the job." The lawyer responded, with more than a hint of condescension, "I'm a lawyer. Who would I know who would want to work as a plumber?" The plumber shrugged, and handed the lawyer his bill. A couple of minutes later, when the plumber returned from his truck, found the lawyer, dressed in the hat and overalls. "I had a chance to look over your bill while you were out," the lawyer said. "You found yourself an assistant." It's never to late to "better" yourself Mike.........How did the overalls fit BTW???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 A couple of minutes later, when the plumber returned from his truck, found the lawyer, dressed in the hat and overalls. "I had a chance to look over your bill while you were out," the lawyer said. "You found yourself an assistant." And it's good, honest, work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SV_shooter Posted December 5, 2007 Author Share Posted December 5, 2007 and theirs only 2 things you gotta know to be a plumbers assistant. $hit runs down hill and payday's on friday... Your a Lawyer Mike??? its cool I sold cars once! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Your a Lawyer Mike??? I generally tell people I play the piano at a whorehouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SV_shooter Posted December 5, 2007 Author Share Posted December 5, 2007 thats even funnier.. I dj at a strip club! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 (edited) A couple of minutes later, when the plumber returned from his truck, found the lawyer, dressed in the hat and overalls. "I had a chance to look over your bill while you were out," the lawyer said. "You found yourself an assistant." And it's good, honest, work. AND I could use the help so take the Viagra and we can get to work Edited December 5, 2007 by Round_Gun_Shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.carden Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Your a Lawyer Mike??? I generally tell people I play the piano at a whorehouse. Would that be the Dean Martin Lounge in La Crosse........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imashooter2 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 to expand on my original statement, you don't know if the pin was modified in any way, installedin a revo with a close to stock main spring pressure, dry fired without snap caps at that heavy spring pressure or even single actioned a ton of times. I'm sure any gunsmith can tell you stories of the guy that brings a gun in saying, "it's broke and I didn't do anything to it" only to find all sorts of bad things inside. And I'm not saying that some of the C&S pins have not broken when all has been done to prevent it, let's face it, things break ! but to say that C&S pins are junk seems a bit harsh! Mine was installed in a 686-6 with a 7 pound pull and an unmodified hammer. I haven't taken an armorers class from S&W, but I'm reasonably confident the pin was installed correctly and it was not modified. It was never dry fired without snap caps and it broke in the middle of a match after less than 2000 rounds fired. I returned the broken pin to C&S and they cheerfully supplied me with a new pin that I have zero confidence in. I've read more than a few reports of C&S pin failures on the net and experienced one of my own. I've never seen a report of a S&W factory pin failing nor have I ever experienced one of my own. I believe I'll be sticking with the factory part from now on. If asked for advice, that's what I'd suggest others should do as well. If that's viewed as a blanket condemnation of the product, then so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10mmdave Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 to expand on my original statement, you don't know if the pin was modified in any way, installedin a revo with a close to stock main spring pressure, dry fired without snap caps at that heavy spring pressure or even single actioned a ton of times. I'm sure any gunsmith can tell you stories of the guy that brings a gun in saying, "it's broke and I didn't do anything to it" only to find all sorts of bad things inside. And I'm not saying that some of the C&S pins have not broken when all has been done to prevent it, let's face it, things break ! but to say that C&S pins are junk seems a bit harsh! Mine was installed in a 686-6 with a 7 pound pull and an unmodified hammer. I haven't taken an armorers class from S&W, but I'm reasonably confident the pin was installed correctly and it was not modified. It was never dry fired without snap caps and it broke in the middle of a match after less than 2000 rounds fired. I returned the broken pin to C&S and they cheerfully supplied me with a new pin that I have zero confidence in. I've read more than a few reports of C&S pin failures on the net and experienced one of my own. I've never seen a report of a S&W factory pin failing nor have I ever experienced one of my own. I believe I'll be sticking with the factory part from now on. If asked for advice, that's what I'd suggest others should do as well. If that's viewed as a blanket condemnation of the product, then so be it. IMO that's a fine way to handle the issue, doesn't sound like a blanket condemnation to me, you used one, it broke, you'll never use another, end of story. I know a gunsmith that I'll never use again, but other folks still use him with no problem's at all, no animosity, no issues, folks are free to do what they want, who am I to tell them different. Now I wonder if S_V Shooters buddies gun is back from S&W yet ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I can't wait to hear in person what he really thinks...... It's to the point I become enraged everytime I see somebody with a handle-bar mustache. For some reason I am picturing entire squads of revolver shooters with the fake handlebar mustaches at next years nationals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slflr Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Your a Lawyer Mike??? I generally tell people I play the piano at a whorehouse. Would that be the Dean Martin Lounge in La Crosse........ I liked that place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SV_shooter Posted December 5, 2007 Author Share Posted December 5, 2007 IMO that's a fine way to handle the issue, doesn't sound like a blanket condemnation to me, you used one, it broke, you'll never use another, end of story. I know a gunsmith that I'll never use again, but other folks still use him with no problem's at all, no animosity, no issues, folks are free to do what they want, who am I to tell them different. Now I wonder if S_V Shooters buddies gun is back from S&W yet ! I have broke 2 Aftecs in my ltd guns and I still use em. As long as they keep shipping new ones. It would seem almost EVERYONE uses Aftecs. How many people do you hear about using C&S Pins??? 1 in 10, 2 in 20(that pretty much is the whole revolver squad) I dont know if my friend even sent it back yet. kinda a lazy bastard type, who is too lazy to do his own research Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Either way, they are soft MIM metal and you can easily polish the sides smooth if necessary. Hmmm....I don't think that's right....aren't the factory firing pins made of titanium? Randy? I have polished a few and I think I would have noticed that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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