billdncn Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 (edited) Fairly new Para. Sorry about the blury pics.... Nose up into chamber. I does this with LSWC's and RNFP's. I don't think it's the extractor. I can move the extractor off the rounds and nothing happens. I smoothed up the breech face as best I could. It will do this with 47D's and Powermags. I like using 12 to 14# recoil springs, but I'm thinking I may try the factory one. I'm guessing it's a 16# It only seems to do this during a match and the gun can be clean or dirty. Although I can duplicate it under controlled feeding. The rounds chamber fine when checked. Any ideas? It bit me bad the last 2 matches Thanks Edited November 11, 2007 by billdncn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout454 Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 Bill, Make sure that the hole where the extractor enters the breechface doesn't have a burr and polish the breechface some more. With the slide off the gun the rounds should slide up under the extractor without any hesitation, From the photo it doesn't look like a problem with the barrel or the feed ramp but that's also a possibility. One other thing: if you're loading range brass (various headstamps) it could be odd/oversize/buggered up rims. Rare, but possible. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billdncn Posted November 11, 2007 Author Share Posted November 11, 2007 One other thing: if you're loading range brass (various headstamps) it could be odd/oversize/buggered up rims. Rare, but possible.Mike That could be and I have thought about that. Funny, I just thought about the extractor hole today. Will check Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10ring Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 The first thing I'd look at is the bottom of the extractor hook and notch. Do these areas have a slight bevel to them? Bob Londrigan wrote an excellent article that describes what this should look like. You and read it by going to www.brazos.com and look under "Articles". I haven't seen one of those Para super-dooper extractors so there may be something special to consider with it. If the extractor shaping and tension seem reasonable, then you might have a sharp edge on the barrel, where the feed ramp on the opening to the chamber transitions to the chamber itself. If this doesn't have a slight radius, sometimes rounds can get bound up there. Oh, one other thing to check is a rough chamber wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billdncn Posted November 11, 2007 Author Share Posted November 11, 2007 The first thing I'd look at is the bottom of the extractor hook and notch. Do these areas have a slight bevel to them? Bob Londrigan wrote an excellent article that describes what this should look like. You and read it by going to www.brazos.com and look under "Articles". I haven't seen one of those Para super-dooper extractors so there may be something special to consider with it.If the extractor shaping and tension seem reasonable, then you might have a sharp edge on the barrel, where the feed ramp on the opening to the chamber transitions to the chamber itself. If this doesn't have a slight radius, sometimes rounds can get bound up there. Oh, one other thing to check is a rough chamber wall. I have massaged the extractor claw, and tension seems fine. I will check the feed ramp to chamber transition. The chamber wall does appear very course with some minor tooling marks, but mainly just a rough ugly finish. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Taylor Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 The first thing I'd look at is the bottom of the extractor hook and notch. Do these areas have a slight bevel to them? Bob Londrigan wrote an excellent article that describes what this should look like. You and read it by going to www.brazos.com and look under "Articles". I haven't seen one of those Para super-dooper extractors so there may be something special to consider with it.If the extractor shaping and tension seem reasonable, then you might have a sharp edge on the barrel, where the feed ramp on the opening to the chamber transitions to the chamber itself. If this doesn't have a slight radius, sometimes rounds can get bound up there. Oh, one other thing to check is a rough chamber wall. I have massaged the extractor claw, and tension seems fine. I will check the feed ramp to chamber transition. The chamber wall does appear very course with some minor tooling marks, but mainly just a rough ugly finish. Thanks Bill I ran you nearly every stage in the 12 stage match on Saturday. The gun ran well as I recall the first stage or two. Then only for a couple of others. The rest of the time this problem was evident. Buy some factory loads (WWB) and try them. If they run, it is the reload you are using. If they fail to feed like this, it is the gun. I think it is possible the light spring you have in the gun does not have enough momentum to strip a new round out of the mag and put it in the chamber. Make sure the slide is lubricated (Slide Glide Lite). You may find that putting the factory spring back in will clear up the problem. If the gun short strokes with the factory spring, your load is too light. Best regards, Jim Taylor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD45 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 I'm not an expert but I thought of something to try(which helped me in the past). If you can trace a jam to a certain cartridge, save it. Save several if possible. Remove the extractor and put the FP stop back in place. Now, install a really light recoil spring. A worn out 12 pounder would be fine. Feed the bad rounds you saved one at a time(you'll have to find a safe way to extract each round). Drop the slide on some and feed others slowly. What you see may give you some clues to the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billdncn Posted November 12, 2007 Author Share Posted November 12, 2007 BillI ran you nearly every stage in the 12 stage match on Saturday. The gun ran well as I recall the first stage or two. Then only for a couple of others. The rest of the time this problem was evident. Buy some factory loads (WWB) and try them. If they run, it is the reload you are using. If they fail to feed like this, it is the gun. I think it is possible the light spring you have in the gun does not have enough momentum to strip a new round out of the mag and put it in the chamber. Make sure the slide is lubricated (Slide Glide Lite). You may find that putting the factory spring back in will clear up the problem. If the gun short strokes with the factory spring, your load is too light. Best regards, Jim Taylor I've been meaning to do that. I've been reloading so long that every time I go into a store I just don't think about picking up a box or two of factory. I will do that, and run them toward the end of a range session when my lead over 231 has it good and dirty and then some controlled feeding to see if I can duplicate. The gun ran fine the 1st 4 stages and I thought "alright! I'm good to go now". Then had a long, cold wait to stage 5 where I had 3 FTF's. Then I switched to Precision RNFP's and it cleared up.....Untill stage 11. One of my favorite hosier stages, where the second round FTF. Talk about a pisser. Thanks for the reply and help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billdncn Posted November 12, 2007 Author Share Posted November 12, 2007 I'm not an expert but I thought of something to try(which helped me in the past). If you can trace a jam to a certain cartridge, save it. Save several if possible. Remove the extractor and put the FP stop back in place. Now, install a really light recoil spring. A worn out 12 pounder would be fine. Feed the bad rounds you saved one at a time(you'll have to find a safe way to extract each round). Drop the slide on some and feed others slowly. What you see may give you some clues to the problem. Make sense to get the extractor out of the way. Good idea. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 (edited) power extractor? quite a few people with the same problem. would you happen to know what the extractor tension is (in lbs or oz)? Standard tension according to kunhausen's book is 3.5 to 4.5 for a standard extractor but i'm wondering if you can get away with less since the PXT claw is so large. Edited November 12, 2007 by yoshidaex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billdncn Posted November 12, 2007 Author Share Posted November 12, 2007 power extractor? quite a few people with the same problem. would you happen to know what the extractor tension is (in lbs or oz)? Standard tension according to kunhausen's book is 3.5 tp 4.5 but i'm wondering if you can get away with less. I don't believe the extractor to be a problem. When the jam occurs I can move the extractor off the round and the slide does not go forward. I still may bevel/polish the face of the claw a little more anyway. I don't know the actual poundage of tension. Rounds slip under the claw easily and are held adequate though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 i don't have much experience with the PXT extractor but a P14-45 I had was working great with the standard extractor. I decided to get a spare extractor and could not for the life of me get it to feed 100%. The pictures you posted look exactly like the problems i was having. i got lazy and installed a aftec extractor and no FTF problems for about 5000 rounds (no cleaning. i'm a shoot till its really dirty kind of guy ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 If you are using a shock buff, remove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Looks like you need to radis the ramp where it breaks over into the chamber. A nice radis & mirror polishing should do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billdncn Posted November 12, 2007 Author Share Posted November 12, 2007 If you are using a shock buff, remove it. No shock buffs here. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billdncn Posted November 12, 2007 Author Share Posted November 12, 2007 Looks like you need to radis the ramp where it breaks over into the chamber. A nice radis & mirror polishing should do it. Gotcha. I'll try that Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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