Which gun for Single Stack?

[Dave Gundry]

Sorry to hijack, but you guys have me drooling on Spartan's now... but I have a few questions:

-What is the trigger like out of the box?

-What is the "patented STI trigger system"?

-What style FP safety do they use?

-Is the MSH already taped for a magwell? Or would a new MSH be in order?

Thanks all

[G-ManBart]

Ok I have decided on STI Trojan in .40 S&W.

Here is the question:

Can I get it with the STI RecoilMaster vs. one piece steel guide rod and still be legal for Single Stack?

Thanks,

Iggyort

I went with a Trojan in .40 and it's a pretty nice piece as delivered, but it's at the smith having a trigger job and reliability package done so I haven't shot it much.

Most of the places you can buy a Trojan from will probably have Recoil Masters on hand, but I doubt they'll credit the cost of the stock rod and spring. Honestly, I've had RM's in several guns and have taken all of them out in favor of a one-piece rod. Comparing them before and after (changing out on the range) I think the standard rod feels smoother and it's every bit as fast in a Limited gun so I'm pretty sure it will be the same in a SS gun. Not only that, but the one I had in the Limited gun started to get beat up after about 4-5K rounds and may have been the cause of the only feeding problems I've ever had with the gun. If you have one, you need two since even after the improvements they still break from time to time. One of the big name gunsmiths I spoke with about Open guns says he uses them in his standard build, but won't use one in his personal Open gun...and he's a GM. That tells me a lot!

[G-ManBart]

Sorry to hijack, but you guys have me drooling on Spartan's now... but I have a few questions:

-What is the trigger like out of the box?

-What is the "patented STI trigger system"?

-What style FP safety do they use?

-Is the MSH already taped for a magwell? Or would a new MSH be in order?

Thanks all

-I haven't shot a stock Spartan, but the stock Trojan at nearly twice the price has an okay trigger for a stock gun, but you're going to want to have some work done on it for sure.

-Not sure about the patented trigger system.

-The firing pin safety is simply a light firing pin with a reasonably strong spring. There is no mechanical FP safety (Springfield does it this way too).

-The MS housing on the Trojan is polymer so I'm guessing it's the same on the Spartan. You can replace the MSH with an S&A combination MSH/magwell or add one of the magwells that doesn't bolt to the MSH. At our last match I saw a magwell that was bolted to the MSH come off when the bolt sheared clean through I decided to go with the Techwell and matching Alumagrips which lets you keep the light polymer MSH. That combo is lighter than using a steel S&A magwell and wood grips. R,

[Dave Gundry]

Thanks Bartman. Did some searching on it - nice review over at m1911. Didn't realize it's an RIA frame, slide, and barrel...

[Gary Stevens]

Guys once again you all are making this much more difficult than it needs to be. We have a very short list of prohibited modifications or features. When you think about these things, go look at those list. Then ask yourself if I do this, assuming it is not on the prohibited list, will my gun still fit in the box and weigh less than 43 ounces with an empty magazine inserted. If your answer is yes, I would say you are 99.9 percent good to go. If you still have a question, I would fire off an e-mail to the DNROI, John Amidon.

Gary

[G-ManBart]

Thanks Bartman. Did some searching on it - nice review over at m1911. Didn't realize it's an RIA frame, slide, and barrel...

I actually won an RIA at Area-2 and was surprised how nice it was for a GI style gun. Even the trigger was pretty decent.

[Dave Gundry]

I have nothing against Armscor at all - just puts the Trojan in perspective is all. I've always been curious about the CD's and RIA's. Had a PT1911 for a while, butchered it and went Tanfoglio, but 1911's are still calling to me... Champaign tastes on a beer budget as my old man says...

[Paul Burtchell]

Pulling up on old thread here, but what a smoking deal on a Single Stack. I have a friend that is getting one today. I'll let ya'll know how it shoots.

http://www.trippresearch.com/osdoc/custompistols.html

[38superman]

I just don't know if I believe it's realistic to think you can get by with a $1000 on a gun for Single Stack.

I will be the first to admit I don't have experience with all the major manufacturers, but I do own a wide variety of 1911 style guns.

In my experience, most production model guns run anywhere from about $700 on the low end and up around 11-1200 on the high end.

I've yet to buy a gun that I felt was race ready without some trigger work, sights, and in most cases accuracy work (match barrel and bushing fitted by gunsmith).

That just doesn't happen for $1000.

The closest I have come is my S&W 1911.

I haven't worked with it that much but early testing has it grouping about 3-4" at 25 yds with factory ammo.

The trigger is decent for a factory production model gun.

Add a fiber optic and you would be in the ball park on your budget with performance I could live with.

I'd still rather shoot my tricked out Springer.

It cost about $800 but probably has about that much spent on upgrades.

Maybe a Kimber or STI single stack would get you where you want to go.

I just don't have experience with those particular guns.

I think your best bet is to find someone on the forum with a quality used SS (with upgrades) for sale.

You might be able to find a low mileage tricked out gun in your price range.

Tls

Edited November 4, 2008 by 38superman

[zhunter]

I would take a close look HERE, but ya better be fast

[bbbean]

I would take a close look HERE, but ya better be fast

That does look like a great deal. If I hadn't already blown my gun budget for the year, I'd be sorely tempted.

[zhunter]

Just trying to help other people spend their money, being I don't have any

[ShooterSteve]

They aren't spending money!! They are redistributing wealth!!

[Rocket35]

I would seriously consider the Trojan over the Spartan. I have had both and the Trojan is far more refined and trouble free. When I bought the Trojan .40, I didn't get any special package or tuning. It has run 100% so far and the trigger is quite nice. I don't feel that the trigger weight is an issue (almost 4lbs), because it is crisp and consistant.

[zhunter]

I would seriously consider the Trojan over the Spartan. I have had both and the Trojan is far more refined and trouble free. When I bought the Trojan .40, I didn't get any special package or tuning. It has run 100% so far and the trigger is quite nice. I don't feel that the trigger weight is an issue (almost 4lbs), because it is crisp and consistant.

I am a trigger snob, I like then just barely sub-2# and I like the looks of the SV Tri-series triggers with the short curved. I also like Doug Koenig hammers, but just cuz they look cool

[Rocket35]

I have added an SV trigger and will be adding a Keonig hammer as well. But it isn't a necessity for the budget conscious.

[zhunter]

I have added an SV trigger and will be adding a Keonig hammer as well. But it isn't a necessity for the budget conscious.

I said I was a snob

[G-ManBart]

I would seriously consider the Trojan over the Spartan. I have had both and the Trojan is far more refined and trouble free. When I bought the Trojan .40, I didn't get any special package or tuning. It has run 100% so far and the trigger is quite nice. I don't feel that the trigger weight is an issue (almost 4lbs), because it is crisp and consistant.

Hey now, your video of the match on Sat showed a malfunction of some kind...LOL.

Regardless, I'd agree on the Trojan over the Spartan for the reasons you mentioned plus the fact that I like the undercut trigger guard better and the chain link on the front strap is a nice touch for a lot less than hand cut checkering.

I'm not as bad a trigger snob as Z is...anything in the 2.5lb ballpark or less and it's not going to hold me back...but I do like the SV short curved and Koenig combo on my Trojan. Yikes, I just added it up and I've probably got something like $1700 in my Trojan. Original price, all new fire control parts, SV ambis, reliability package and trigger job from McLearn, Techwell magwell, and I still haven't fit the new (free)Schuemann barrel that's sitting in a drawer ready to go!

[Rocket35]

I would seriously consider the Trojan over the Spartan. I have had both and the Trojan is far more refined and trouble free. When I bought the Trojan .40, I didn't get any special package or tuning. It has run 100% so far and the trigger is quite nice. I don't feel that the trigger weight is an issue (almost 4lbs), because it is crisp and consistant.

Hey now, your video of the match on Sat showed a malfunction of some kind...LOL.

Regardless, I'd agree on the Trojan over the Spartan for the reasons you mentioned plus the fact that I like the undercut trigger guard better and the chain link on the front strap is a nice touch for a lot less than hand cut checkering.

I'm not as bad a trigger snob as Z is...anything in the 2.5lb ballpark or less and it's not going to hold me back...but I do like the SV short curved and Koenig combo on my Trojan. Yikes, I just added it up and I've probably got something like $1700 in my Trojan. Original price, all new fire control parts, SV ambis, reliability package and trigger job from McLearn, Techwell magwell, and I still haven't fit the new (free)Schuemann barrel that's sitting in a drawer ready to go!

That was an ammo related jam. Had to borrow some to finish the match.

[G-ManBart]

That was an ammo related jam. Had to borrow some to finish the match.

Now that you mention it, I did recall you borrowing some ammo. You should have asked me...I had some of my certified "excellent" .40 long in the truck for the classifier!

Now a real snob would say it should run anything you put in it, but single stack .40s take a tad more care than trash-eater .45s (which I love too). R,

[zhunter]

but single stack .40s take a tad more care than trash-eater .45s (which I love too). R,

[EkuJustice]

I would say get the sights you want,some trigger work some quality magazines and forget the match barrel and all that. How necessary is a match grade barrel in the first place when we arnt exactly shooting a bullseye match and how many are shooting that well,(fast enough to be competative as well) that a match grade barrel is really going to help them. Maby the GMs and a few TOP Masters? As long as you have decent accuracy and the gun hits where you want it to you should be good to go. Trigger wise you sould be able to get in the upper 2pound-low 3 pound range for pretty cheap using mostly the stock parts with a little work. On a budget there is no need to drop a couple hundred on custom trigger parts and work and end up out 250-300 bucks to get a sub 2 pound trigger pull.

You can always add more later if you want to but if your on a budget start with the basics and then go from there.

A used Pre series 2 Kimber would be a good place to start as the quality of the earlier ones blows the new ones away.

[Boss1622]

I have a Springfield “TRP” 1911 in .45, that I shoot in IDPA CDP after nearly two years (7 state matches and 50+ local club matches, it has been 100% reliable.

The only changes: I added a Dawson Fiber frt. Sight and adjustable rear and had a trigger job done. I would highly recommend it…

[38superman]

I would say get the sights you want,some trigger work some quality magazines and forget the match barrel and all that. How necessary is a match grade barrel in the first place when we arnt exactly shooting a bullseye match and how many are shooting that well,(fast enough to be competitive as well) that a match grade barrel is really going to help them. Maby the GMs and a few TOP Masters? As long as you have decent accuracy and the gun hits where you want it to you should be good to go. Trigger wise you sould be able to get in the upper 2pound-low 3 pound range for pretty cheap using mostly the stock parts with a little work. On a budget there is no need to drop a couple hundred on custom trigger parts and work and end up out 250-300 bucks to get a sub 2 pound trigger pull.

You can always add more later if you want to but if your on a budget start with the basics and then go from there.

A used Pre series 2 Kimber would be a good place to start as the quality of the earlier ones blows the new ones away.

Accuracy matters and not just to GM's.

Consider this.

A typical metal plate measures 8" in diameter.

Let's think about taking a long shot at a plate with a gun & load capable of 4" accuracy at that distance.

The net effect is that your aim is resticted to the interior 50% of the target.

If your sights stray outside that sweet spot, the gun may do the rest and throw the bullet completely off the steel.

For all intents and purposes you are now shooting at a 4" target instead of an 8" target.

Think of it this way. The difference between a handgun that groups 1" and a gun that groups 4" is the difference between shooting at a 4" plate or a 7" plate.

That's going to translate into mikes or make up shots.

I want the bullets to land where the gun is aimed when I break the trigger.

I need to know that if I missed, it was because I missed.

Is a tack driving gun an absolute must?

Of course not, but it will make a difference.

Only the guy behind the trigger can decide how much importance to attach to it.

Tls

[zhunter]

Great post Tony