Change in Championship Events

[Pin Shooter]

It would shake things up a bit, and be an excellent excuse for me to but a couple of new guns

[oldtrooper]

I still like the idea of the Ambi-Plates. It would ratchet the pressure up, especially if it were added as a fifth event to be added to the total. Make the Cup a 2400 match instead of the 1920 and if the Super Squad is still scheduled to shoot the Ambi last then how about that for pressure and spectator sport.

[gm iprod]

Shooting for the National Championship with an Open and a Metallic gun is something I have always been keen on. I bet Bruce Piatt would have been keen on it starting at the last Cup (3838 ).

At the least, I think adding an event, not swaping an event is the way to go, MJ has got it right, and no I can't believe you are saying it either. Still retain each firearm division winner, but the big prize is over those two guns and out of 3840 points. As soon as you could shoot two guns for the Open / Metallic aggregate (2005??) there were 20 guys who did so, I was one. There were more in 2006 and I think more agin in 2007.

If the other three main NRA sponsored events have remained basically the same clearly the course of fire that is at not at fault, and numbers are going or down?

[kimmbeckwith]

The only thing I think we need to consider is the average age of our competitors. Bullseye has found out that the electronic sights have kept the older shooters in the game longer. As we age a natural progression is loss of ability to focus like we used to. How may out there have found it harder with age to focus on that front sight! Also the people with more spendable income are older shooters. So, by instituting open sights into the aggregate this may have a tendency to eliminate some of the older competitors in the combined championship, just food for thought.

Kim

[Dirty Steve]

Ok, I think this discussion needs some direction. For instance "What is the reason for wanting to change?". If it is to eliminate the Mover because some clubs don't have the equipment. Then change the guide lines to allow Regional Matches to shoot a different event in lieu of the mover or give two possible substitutes.

If the reason is, for the sake of a change. There would be two way to look at it. One is the Mover is just fun to shoot and should stay for the fun factor. Another rational would be take out the event with the most 480's shot during the Cup. Adding the combat event would add more accuracy to the Cup. The Ambi plates would lower scores. The Ambi-plates would add a new level of skill to the Cup. I mean you just can not slack of in doing some real practice to become proficient at it. The Speed Load Challenge would add some additional speed and excitement.

I just would want any change made for the right reason. And the proper event added to make the match more challenging. hooting two guns would add a big appeal to the event.

Dirty Steve,Out

[NRAActionPistol]

All,

We hope your Holiday was fantastic, and you got to spend some time with Friends & Family.

Here is the latest press releases for the Championship in 2008.

<http://www.theoutdoorwire.com/tow_release.php?ID=123815&session=et1t8wmtf3nyujng>

<http://www.golfbusinesswire.com/shooting_wire_release.html?releaseID=123828>

Hang in there more changes & additions to come, based on the advice of the Majority of Action Pistol competitors the "Mover" will stay!

There is still a good possibility of swapping out one of the events, you would be given two possible choices, the final choice would be opened from a sealed & time stamped envelope by John Bianchi & announced on Tuesday, 20 May 2008 at the competitors meeting. We are also looking at the possibilty of adding a 5th Event that would be part of the Aggregate with a total score of 2400. This Event would be the "John Bianchi Heritage Event" & you would have to shoot it with a Metallic Sight Gun, no matter what your primary gun is.

This will all be decided on or about 19 December 2007, the invitations & entry forms will be mailed out late December 07 Early Jan 08.

We look forward to seeing you all at the 30th Cup 21-24 May 2008!

Tom...

"There's no limit to what a man can do or where he can go if he doesn't mind who gets the credit".

Ronald Reagan

[Action Pistolero]

What's this "possibility" of changing one of the events and having the heritage event? JUST DO IT!!!!!!

[Allgoodhits]

What's this "possibility" of changing one of the events and having the heritage event? JUST DO IT!!!!!!

+1 ....or in other words Git R Done.

Indecision is nothing but chaos, with choices. Make a decision to leave it as is, or make a decision to change, but make a decision, so that the ACTUAL SHOOTERS can decide to go or not go, to plan or not plan or to practise or not practise.

Indecision on the part or Scoring ( back to late shot on Barricade days), indecision on the part of standing vs prone, indecision on the part of touch barricade or not, indecision on trigger and safety devices and now indecision as to COF.

The BC is a fine tournament, just the way it is, or it can be a fine tournament if it is changed completely, but one thing appears to be for certain. If more promotion doesn't happen and more shooters don't attend, then it won't matter because it will be gone.

So I ask, how do you go about promoting a Tournament early, when the decision hasn't even been made as to what the tournament will be? What will the poster say? What will the ad say? What will the invitation say?

[Jim O'Young]

Tom-

Regarding the mandatory metallic sight firearm for the "John Bianchi Heritage Event"; will there be any definitions/restrictions on it?

Or, as long as it has iron sights, will it be anything goes (compensator, muzzle weight, barrel length, etc.)? Will the definition/restrictions differ between the different entry catagories (e.g. Open & Limited)?

Or will the match provide the firearm & ammo for this one event?

Thanks in advance for your reply.

Jim

[gm iprod]

Jim,

Tom uses the words "Metallic Sight gun" so I think anything that is currently covered by the in place Metallic Sight rules will be what they are intending us to use. WHich seem reasonable, a little difficult on the long sighted "older" shooter, but then as my grandfather was fond of saying, "old age and treachery will beat youth and enthusiasm any day"

This years Cup should be "interesting"

[Allgoodhits]

Interesting conversation.

Last night I spoke to a guy who has shot numerous Cups. However he missed last year, and planned to come back 2008.

He said, that there is no way in hell he is going to go out and buy, or have made a custom metallic gun for a 48-50 round match that likely will only be used in 2008. Set aside the fact that he, as high master, has spent years developing skills and acquiring proper "open" equipment specific to the CUP. Now according to him, he basically would have to abort, all training of "open shooting" to get up to speed on his metallic skills, adjustment of glasses etc, as anyone over 40 years old may likely need different prescriptions for metallic than using a scope.

How many more will have these thoughts, that are not verbal on BE Forum? Something to think about. Is the 2008 BC for John Bianchi or is it for the shooters? Ouch! In an attempt to grow the event we may lose more, afterall there are few who actually express opinions before, yet many who complain later. Some voice their complaint by not returning. The CUP no longer has the luxury to lose shooters, as we have likely reached the threshold of existence.

MJ

[Methuaelah]

I've checked the NRA website for the John Bianchi Heriteage event and don't see a course of fire in the approved 16 for that match. Is that the secret event that we cann't practice for?

Indecision, more matches, different guns, new skills. Sounds like alot of fun if you have an unlimited buget and you don't work a 40 hour week 50 weeks a year. Reloading, gunsmithing, range set-up for new events, practice time, new skills to aquire, open sight gun, new prescription for my glasses. Just thinking about all of this is almost overwhelming.

The Bainchi Cup is not something that is broken. You can not fix what isn't broken, but you can mess with it until it can not be fixed. The Cup needs to be promoted. Guns & Ammo, Shooting Times, American Handgunner magazine would help.

Keeping things the same makes it easier for new, and keeps the old shooters coming back.

Methuselah

[ffl]

As someone who would like to shoot the Cup. I don't have the option of shooting a mover anywhere close to me. My daughter is wanting to shoot the cup as a junior with Karl Pipers daughter for a junior women team but there is no way she can practice a mover because the members of our local club don't want any change or additions to the club. They barely let us shoot a USPSA match once a month. So any change that removes the mover allows us to practice so we can be compeditive.

[Action Pistolero]

ffl,

There is a way to practice the mover without getting to shoot on one. Shoot the plate rack but instead of shooting them in a straight order shoot the far left plate then the far right working your way in to the middle. I did something similar to this in Sydney last year and shot one of my best movers ever. I never practiced on the mover that was there.

The Heritage event that Tom is talking about will be the Unsupported Standards. You will find that one in the rulebook.

When I talked to Tom about the Heritage event I mentioned to him that there are a lot of Open shooters that don't have a Metallic gun that they would want to shoot in the event. His comment was that most all shooters have a gun laying around that they could shoot. He does have a point. All the shooters that I know have a gun that they could shoot but wouldn't want to because a custom gun would make the match easier. Let's not kid ourselves, the Unsupported Standards is a rough event with the Open gun much less a Metallic but it will be one hell of a challenge. Those shooters that are well rounded will do well and those that are not will not do as well or will have to work harder. That's just the way it is. As I always say, Adapt and Overcome. If all else fails come and see me. You can shoot one of my guns.

Kevin

[Methuaelah]

The idea of making changes is to get more people to come, right? If you want more shooters, and if you feel there has to be a change in the COF, add matches that are easier and more fun. Adding Ambi-Plates or Unsupported Standards will mean that the best weakhand shooter wins. When do you shoot a weak hand string in Bullseye. Most IPSC shooters dread weakhand stages. Keep it simple, easy and fun.

I just don't see new shooters, or even some of our old shooters lining up to shoot The World Weakhand Championship.

[Allgoodhits]

Sorry for the thread drift....

See..... Last Shot Fired..... Leroy Spangler from VA has a gone to a HIGHER range.

Martin J.

[maui1911]

HI GUYS I WOULD LIKE TO SAY TOM AND RUDY ARE DOING A GREAT JOB BUT I STILL THINK LEAVE IT AS IT IS AND PROMOTE THE SPORT BETTER, I DONT THINK CHANGING THE MATCHES,IS GOING THE NUMBERS. LAST YEAR NUMBERS WERE UP BECAUSE RULES WENT BACK TO WHAT THEY USED TO BE,SO WE KNOW THAT WE ARE ON THE RIGHT TRACK.WHAT DO YOU THINK WOULD HAPPEN IF MATCHES CHANGED AND NUMBERS DROPED AGAIN,I DONT WANT TO SOUND TO MUCH LIKE A MOANER, BUT I LOVE THIS MATCH,AND I DONT WANT TO SEE IT DISSAPER.

LEROY WILL BE MISSED BUT HE WILL BE UP THERE WITH JOHN CAMERON KEEPING HIM COMPANY, WOW THAT COULD BE INTERESTING

KARL