mlanush Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 I shoot USPSA but I'm new to 3-gun, but I absolutely love it . I'm wanting to do some practice on reloads since , im terrible at them. What are some drills or better yet how does everyone else reload. I mean techniques not where the shells go (cutting off the peanut gallery before i'm told from the bottom) I have a rem 1100 with a easyloader, but i have not been able to find a good way to reload. I have a receiver shell holder and I have a forearm shell holder. Thanks in advance for your help. Is there a website,book or video that talks about that? Mark L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 In the words of Erik Warren "Get thee to the search engine." There is a wealth of material, debates, commentary, cutdowns, and descriptions of the various schools of though on this topic in the rifle/shotgun and 3gun sections of the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 One at a time, as fast as you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlanush Posted April 10, 2003 Author Share Posted April 10, 2003 would love to do Kellyn a search but i tried it already and was unable to find anything good..... ML Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 (edited) Movement while reloading Weak-hand reloading with open bolt Shotgun reloads Limited Shotgun Reloads Shotgun Reloads revisited Edited January 22, 2004 by Erik Warren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlanush Posted April 11, 2003 Author Share Posted April 11, 2003 Thanks for the info ERIK, I guess i also not so good witht the search option........ ML Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DblTap Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 I have a rem 1100 with a easyloader, but i have not been able to find a good way to reload. I have a receiver shell holder and I have a forearm shell holder. IMHO, two or three shells at a time, from the belt, weak hand with the gun shouldered. Engage targets as they become visible while reloading. Use the wrist band when some warped course designer has you going prone or other such torture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 So he's supposed to hold a 9# shotgun straight and level just by its grip? That takes a lot of wrist strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 Dbltap & Eric: It,s just as easy to load prone, weak handed as sitting or kneeling. Try to get at least 3 in hand 4 is even better! Holding up that "ol" 9# shotgun isn't so bad, as some of the weight is supported by that shoulder the gun sits against and once youy get good at loading you only have to support the gun for about 3-3.5 seconds to load 4 in! Even Jeds granny should be up to the task KURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHughes Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 And the debate goes on. Lets do some drills and see which is faster. Strictly for the game. No tactics or speedloaders involved. Load two rounds in the shotgun to start. From the ready on target position with two targets downrange at 15 yards and two yards between targets, safety off and finger on the trigger. On the beep shoot one target. Load three rounds and shoot the other target. Now check your time. Try it both ways, support hand and shooting hand loading. Let me know what your times are. I'm curious to see which is faster. Of course the winner is the one you practice most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonB Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 KurtM, Are you using a pistol-gripped Benelli? If Jed's Grandma can use that technique effectively on a "normal" SG... she must be someone special. There is just no way I can use that technique with my rifle stock 1100. Oh well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 GordonB: Pistol grips on any shotgun is the sign of the DEVIL. I have seen them cause more functioning and shooting problems than they could EVER help!!!! Just about ANYONE that had one on their shotgun has taken it off and made big money on the gun show crowd. M(LT in waiting)Hughes: for the drill you post, the Miller boys, West, and Holdsworth usually run in the mid 3s with my personal best at 3.31. (This is a start from port arms ...or eyes muzzle target. Did you mean already aimed at the target?) I would guess E(capitan already) Rhoades around the same time frame as well as Taran Butler ( a weak hand loader also.) Here is one for you to try start w/ empty gun bolt forward safety off, load 6 rounds and engage 6 plates at 11yds with 1yd between each plate with 3 on one side of the berm and the other 3 11 yds twards the other side of the berm. I.E. O O O O O O Best I have done so far is 6.48 seconds starting at port arms, but I usually run in the late 6s and early 7s. KURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHughes Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 anybody got any times for the shooting hand reloads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike45 Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 Kurt, Are you saying that on the beep you open the action, load the chamber and load 5 more to complete the course you are mentioning. Why are you starting from a closed chamber, wouldn't you always in a course start with an open one. Secondly how can you physically hold four rounds in your hand and be able to manipulate them quick enough to load whilst holding the gun level in the other. Thirdly if pistol grip stocks are the work of the devil then I am going to burn in damnation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHughes Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 Kurt (leaving us for Oklahoma) Miller Yes, I mean start with the gun loaded and pointed at the target, with the safety off and finger on the trigger. This is simply a test to see which way you can load faster. I want to eliminate all the possible little differences. You already know the way I reload, I just wanted to see what times others were loading in. Now on your drill, do you load all six to start, chamber the round and shoot all targets...I would think this would be the fastest - or load three, chamber the round, shoot two, load three, shoot four? And Mike45, You can grab four rounds in the support hand and load them but you run a higher risk of fumbling the rounds when you go for four. Three seems more natural, leaves you three left in the holder to load next time and I think a lot depends on hand size. Mine hands are average size and I can and have grabbed four rounds and loaded them without a problem. I think that's a big part of the reason you see so many shooter turn the gun over and load with the shooting hand, it's because of the high fumble factor with the support hand loading. Support hand loading the shotgun takes lots of practice but you gain so much time. In the shotgun matches the loading is a big part of what saves you time and wins the match. And you don't see many shotguns with pistol grips in the matches because like Kurt said; lots of the malfunction problems are caused by the pistol grip shotgun stock. I still use one and mind does not malfunction but I'm an old, slow shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 Mike45: Believe it or not getting 4 rounds "in hand" and then loading them into the shotgun while holding the shotgun level at a target, or even running is no big thing!! I load this way, so does Pacman, Taran Butler, Eddie Rhoades, and a host of others. I WILL DEFINATELY show you how I do it in TERNI!!!! Where are you staying? I heared from Neil Beverly that a few Britts are at the Best Western. I am thinking there or the Michael Angelo, just because it,s near the train station. I am going to book this coming week. LET ME KNOW!!!! Secondly, it is just a drill for shotgun manipulation, load, rack, shoot. Not a course of fire! As the other Mike pointed out, with a Benelli, load all 6 then do the rack and bang!! Mike45, listening to M( the LT kind)Hughes would cause you to " burn in hell", He is neither slow or that old( although he does shoot senior). If you bother to check, it seems he is always top senior AND top military... this guy rakes swag in like you wouldn't believe!!! Shooting a pistol grip makes you much hollier than most as you have to contend with the devil while shooting! Mike(LT), for aimed in and ready to shoot the time is 2.73 best, 2.9s average! KURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike45 Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 Kurt, Am looking forward to seeing you guys shoot, it will be like breaking the mould for us and opening a whole new book. I will E mail you this week where we are going to stay, but Western is looking favorite. What does military class mean, I see that forces and police can enter, but does that put you into a seperate catagory or can you still shoot in a team and be in military catagory e.g production / limited club team + still compete in the military catagory as an individual competitor. I didn't know if I could shoot in italy as part of a team but enter the military catagory as well. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 Mike45: Unfortunatly I have no idea!! The Military catagory I alude to is at World Championship 3-Gun, and Superstion Mountain Mystery 3-Gun. None are USPSA/IPSC sanctioned matches (but the prize/swag tables are really impressive!!!) 50th place usually walks away with at least his entry fee back in prizes or cash(mainly SMM3G, WC3G has been a little light as of recent.) Let me know where you will be and I will be there! KURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonB Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 Kurtm, I think you missed a part of my question on the gun that you use. I get that you are using a rifle stock, but are you using a Benelli (i.e. lighter)? I guess what I'm trying to get at, is this technique a Benelli (lighter) only and not a gas gun (heavy) technique? I'm not fully aware of what the people you listed are using, but I believe Butler uses a pistol gripped Benelli. Which lead me to initially believe that this is a technique that only lends itself to a lighter shotgun (SG) with a pistol grip. Also when you are loading with this technique: 1. Are you changing your strong hand grip and then going into back into a firing grip? 2. Are you holding the gun parallel to the earth or is the muzzle down or up? 3. Where is the buttstock? Is it against your shoulder in a firing position or is it somewhere else? To All: What does the pistol grip do that causes functioning problems in a SG? I've never ran with one before. But I think using the technique that is being mentioned lends itself to using a pistol grip. It's a lot harder to hold the SG vertically with a rifle stock than it is with a pistol grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHughes Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 Kelly or anyone that loads with the shooting hand. Let me know what your times are for this simple drill. Anyone close to 3 seconds? Good job Kurt, I knew you could do it in under 3 seconds. Anyone else come close or did the other boys not come out to play today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacMan Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 A lighter shotgun, i.e. Benelli, is a definite plus with weak hand loading, but the key is to pull the gun tight into your shoulder pocket with the gun close to horizontal. I've done this with my Browinng BPS that has the straight English stock (not as easy compare to rifle stock). An alternative is to squeeze the stock between the arm and body with muzzle slightly down. Grabbing 4 rounds at a time take a bit of practice and it is not all that hard to get used to. However, getting to the speed of which Kurt is loading...well, I would need lots and lots more practice and many more blood clots on my loading thumb. Another benefit that I've noticed with weak hand loading is muzzle position while traversing side to side, the gun is always pointed down range no matter which direction you move (L to R or R to L). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 Gordon: Yes, it is a Benelli! A 28" barrel 14 round capacity, 9 1/4 pound Benelli!( for modified class in IPSC) My limited shotgun ( same frame) is a 22" barrel 11 shot Benelli that weighs the same as a Remington. I have even done this technique with a Ithaca 10 ga mag, definatly NOT light. Stock stays in shoulder, strong hand doesn't move, except for finger straight, Muzzle can be slightly up, down, or right on target.....no paso nada!( it doesn't matter). I try to keep it on target, when loading on the run ( between targets) I will elivate the muzzle slightly to better see the bottom edge of the port and the ground I am running on. I thought Taran had a straight stock at Mesa this year.....but I could be mistaken! KURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacMan Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 MHughes, my time for your little test was 3.59 best, 4.21 worst, all weak hand loading with 3 rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironman Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Kurt, I am no expert but I like to tilt the barrel down a little to allow gravity to help get the round into the tube. I agree that weak hand loading is not only for pistol grip shotguns. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHughes Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 I'm still waiting for Kelly or someone to tell me their times for "shooting hand" loading. I went out yesterday after reading Kurts time and decided to try this again. I was pointed in on the target, safety off, finger on the trigger, shoot one target, load three, shoot the second target. I did this twenty times First try: .23 first round 2.81 reload three time 3.04 total time worst try - with big fumble .23 first round 5.59 reload three time 5.82 total time best try - really smooth .21 first round 2.63 reload three time 2.84 total time You know I'm pressing the trigger as the third shell goes in. But I never got my thumb caught or had a malfunction, or should I say - Not yet. The best time I did for Kurts drill of starting with an empty chamber, gun pointed in on target, safety off, load six rounds, chamber a round and shoot 6 targets was 8.53 seconds. My lovely wife was doing the timming and recording the times. I'm old and slow. Glad they have something for us over 50 military guys at some of the matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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