SJC Open 9x19 Major Gun Load Development

[HoMiE]

So as promised, I got my G17 back from SJC today and went straight out with the chrono and some loads. I used WSF, Winchester Nickle brass, Federal SP, Montana Gold 124 gr. JHPs and OAL of 1.145" for all of my initial testing. Chrono was a Pact 10' from muzzle. My buddy already has worked up loads in his 9 major STI, so I had a good starting point, although his OAL is a bit longer, 1.180". I had to go shorter to fit in glock magazines. KKM Match barrel with 5 port SJC comp. Started out low and worked my way up. I have to say I was quite impressed, as I worked my way up the gun ran 100%. Fired every round, no failures to feed, ejected every case.

Disclaimer - Do not try this in a unsupported/factory barrel!

Here are my results...

WSF 5.8gr

HI 1253.3 fps

LO 1221.0 fps

SD 10.8

ES 32.3

AVG 1235.3 fps

PF 153

WSF 6.0gr

HI 1263.4 fps

LO 1240.0

SD 7.9

ES 23.4

AVG 1252.5

PF 155

WSF 6.2gr

HI 1290.5 fps

LO 1262.1 fps

SD 9.7

ES 28.5

AVG 1273.7 fps

PF 158

WSF 6.4gr

HI 1342.8

LO 1299.2

SD 12.9

ES 43.5

AVG 1318.4

PF 163

WSF 6.6gr

HI 1359.7

LO 1328.8

SD 9.6

ES 30.9

AVG 1340.5

PF 166 (Major at this point)

WSF 6.7gr

HI 1378.7

LO 1315.9

SD 18.3

ES 62.8

AVG 1342.9

PF 167

I stopped at this point. I loaded up some more rounds at the 6.6~6.8 gr. range and will do some more testing tomorrow. Good signs on primers, gun got better and better as the PF went up, comp really starts to work. I think the dot moved around more with my 134PF loads that I used to sight-in gun. I also plan to try a couple of different powders and will post those results as soon as I work those loads up as well.

[HoMiE]

So I went back out to the range and did some more testing. Seeing that I was pretty close to where I wanted to be, I just decided to reduce the 6.7 gr. charge just a bit. As I weighed the charges, most of them were 6.7, but I would get an occasional charge that would read 6.6. Chrono results below, forgot to mention to day it was cold, 54 degrees F. Yesterday was warmer,mid-60s F. Elevation is like 4100 feet.

WSF 6.7gr

HI 1381.2

LO 1349.5

SD 9.9

ES 31.7

AVG 1362.6 fps

PF 169

I think I am going to stick with this load, Will probably try Siloutte next week.

[yoshidaex]

does the 6.7 load work the comp better compared to the 5.8 load? i'm wondering how effective the SJC comp is.

Edited September 20, 2007 by yoshidaex

[HoMiE]

does the 6.7 load work the comp better compared to the 5.8 load? i'm wondering how effective the SJC comp is.

Definately, as I worked the load up the muzzle flip was reduced and I could track the dot better. I must say it doesn't shoot as flat as my friends long/wide full dust cover 9 major STI w/Yanek comp, but my arms don't get tired holding the gun up either.

Edited September 20, 2007 by HoMiE

[yoshidaex]

do you think going higher than 6.7 will make the gun shoot flatter or will it get to close to the danger zone?

[HoMiE]

do you think going higher than 6.7 will make the gun shoot flatter or will it get to close to the danger zone?

Going higher than 6.8 you start getting 1400+fps 175 pf. Also the with such little case capacity, you really have to be careful with the press while reloading, any bump or un-smoothness and the powder starts to spill, and load starts to become compressed. My target velocity was 1355 fps, 168 pf. I can live with 1360-ish almost 169~170pf. Going to try some different powders and see how the dot tracks next week.

[HoMiE]

So chrono'ed some more loads, same but different. This time I used mixed brass, mostly Speer, Federal, Remington and Winchester. OAL was kept at 1.145" and todays temperature was in the mid 70's, like 75 degrees at 2 pm. My 6.2 and 6.4 load the chrono only recorded 6 and 7 shots respectively. I had to mess around with the skyscreens, think it was too much sun today.

WSF 6.2gr

HI 1303.7

LO 1259.6

SD 19.0

ES 25.7

AVG 1273.1 fps

PF 158

WSF 6.4

HI 1299.0

LO 1273.3

SD 10.4

ES 25.7

AVG 1289.2

PF 160

WSF 6.6

HI 1325.0

LO 1275.3

SD 17.6

ES 49.7

AVG 1296.4 fps

PF 161

WSF 6.7

HI 1342.3

LO 1295.4

SD 14.8

ES 47.0

AVG 1325.5 fps

PF 164

Using WIN brass in my production loads, they generally produces the highest results. Getting the same results with major loads. Looks like I have to go a little bit higher to make major using mixed brass or sort it all out by headstamp.

[mgcchkn]

I'm really curious what you find out with the Silhouette powder. I am getting ready to start load development for my new SJC major 9 gun as well.

[HoMiE]

Went out to the range today and tried some Silhoutte loads. Weather was about 58~60 degrees.

All loads OAL was 1.145" using 124 MG JHPs, mixed once-fired brass (Speer, Fed, Win, R-P)

Silhoutte 6.2 gr.

HI 1215.5

LO 1169.7

SD 18.2

ES 45.8

AVG 1196.3 FPS

PF 148

Silhoutte 6.4

HI 1234.6

LO 1206.8

SD 8.4

ES 27.8

AVG 1220.8 FPS

PF 151

Silhoutte 6.6

HI 1258.6

LO 1218.5

SD 12.6

ES 40.1

AVG 1243.3 FPS

PF 154

Silhoutte 6.8

HI 1286.9

LO 1259.0

SD 11.3

ES 27.9

AVG 1278.1 FPS

PF 158

Silhoutte 7.0

HI 1312.0

LO 1269.4

SD 14.2

ES 42.6

AVG 1298.1 FPS

PF 161

Silhoutte 7.2

HI 1333.2

LO 1317.2

SD 5.9

ES 16.1

AVG 1326.3 FPS

PF 164

Silhoutte 7.4

HI 1366.7

LO 1340.4

SD 8.9

ES 26.3

AVG 1356.2 FPS

PF 168

Silhoutte 7.4~7.5 (Just a smidge on powder adjustment, weights were about in between)

HI 1355.5

LO 1342.5

SD 4.7

ES 12.9

AVG 1348.2

PF 167

The last Silhoutte load was the most consistent over the chrono, think it proably has to do with cycling the press more at a more consistent measure. Will probably confirm later this week at the last setting to see if I have to go higher than 7.5 but I think that will put me right around 169 PF where I want to be for now. One thing I did notice is that the SD and ES were lower using Silhoutte vs. WSF. I think that has to do with Silhoutte being a finer powder, measure betters, more consistent over WSF. It did leave the comp dirtier than WSF. I am going to do some timing drills and see if I can tell any difference in dot movement and if I shoot better with one powder over the other.

[mgcchkn]

thanks for all of the detailed information, will be most helpful when I get started.

[mlmiller1]

Very interesting! How are the primers looking? Are you having to compress the silhouette? I built up a major load for a friend of mine & we used v.v.3n37@7.8 under a zero 125. This gives you about 168-169 pf. The primers are starting to flatten(winchester small pistol) a little but there was no flow or smearing.

This was out of a Tom Novak built F-17open 9mm. The powder burns very clean & the bullets just touch the powder when your are seating them. Using brand matched brass, the spread is very low. His C-More dot on a carver mount is just reaching the top of the lens with his grip. It isn't as flat as an STI open but like you say, your arms aren't tired of holding it up. More importantly, your wallet isn't flat trying to pay for it. It is a very nice little gun.

MLM

[HoMiE]

Primers look good. I am using Federal Small Pistol primers. I will try and get some pics and post them. Actually the primers look better with Silhoutte, WSF looks like it is flattening the primers a little more (well at least to my eyes). WSF @ 7.8 6.8 fills up the case more than Silhoutte @ 7.5. Neither load is compressed. I can buy WSF 8lb. keg locally for $90. $51.25 per 4lb. x 2 =$102.50 +hazmat&shipping from PVI don't know if its really worth it to go with Silhoutte, might stay with WSF till price goes up or I can't get it locally anymore.

With either load, I am able to see the dot on the target, I don't lose it during recoil.

Edited October 12, 2007 by Flexmoney
to fix technical typo

[HoMiE]

I had a typo in the above post, the WSF load was 6.8, not 7.8.

Also, wanted to report that the Silhoutte load that I was shooting is leaving unburnt powder in my chamber and at the comp. I am not going to shoot silhoutte anymore and will just stick with WSF.

[mgcchkn]

that's not good I just got 10 pounds of silhouette a few weeks ago. oh well, I guess I can use it for non major loads.

[HoMiE]

My friend who also loads Silhoutte does not have that problem, but he is using Small rifle primers. I might give it another shot and see if hotter primer burns the powder better.

[open17]

My friend who also loads Silhoutte does not have that problem, but he is using Small rifle primers. I might give it another shot and see if hotter primer burns the powder better.

Mitch, Try upping the charge just a bit, up to maybe 172 pf or so. I run HS-7, and it is leaves

a lot of unburned powder at 168, burns pretty clean at 170+. Some kind of load density thing.

Whatever you are running now seems to be working--congrats on the Open win at the Oregon Glock

Championship match. Ya got me by almost 1 1/4 points!

Bill

[HoMiE]

My friend who also loads Silhoutte does not have that problem, but he is using Small rifle primers. I might give it another shot and see if hotter primer burns the powder better.

Mitch, Try upping the charge just a bit, up to maybe 172 pf or so. I run HS-7, and it is leaves

a lot of unburned powder at 168, burns pretty clean at 170+. Some kind of load density thing.

Whatever you are running now seems to be working--congrats on the Open win at the Oregon Glock

Championship match. Ya got me by almost 1 1/4 points!

Bill

Thanks. It was a fun match (even in the rain).

I will try bumping the charge a little bit and see if that helps with the burning.

[mgcchkn]

My friend who also loads Silhoutte does not have that problem, but he is using Small rifle primers. I might give it another shot and see if hotter primer burns the powder better.

Mitch, Try upping the charge just a bit, up to maybe 172 pf or so. I run HS-7, and it is leaves

a lot of unburned powder at 168, burns pretty clean at 170+. Some kind of load density thing.

Whatever you are running now seems to be working--congrats on the Open win at the Oregon Glock

Championship match. Ya got me by almost 1 1/4 points!

Bill

Thanks. It was a fun match (even in the rain).

I will try bumping the charge a little bit and see if that helps with the burning.

You get a chance to bump up the Silhouette charge yet?

[HoMiE]

You get a chance to bump up the Silhouette charge yet?

No, I don't have any more of the powder and can't find any locally.

[ormondopen]

So as promised, I got my G17 back from SJC today and went straight out with the chrono and some loads. I used WSF, Winchester Nickle brass, Federal SP, Montana Gold 124 gr. JHPs and OAL of 1.145" for all of my initial testing. Chrono was a Pact 10' from muzzle. My buddy already has worked up loads in his 9 major STI, so I had a good starting point, although his OAL is a bit longer, 1.180". I had to go shorter to fit in glock magazines. KKM Match barrel with 5 port SJC comp. Started out low and worked my way up. I have to say I was quite impressed, as I worked my way up the gun ran 100%. Fired every round, no failures to feed, ejected every case.

Disclaimer - Do not try this in a unsupported/factory barrel!

Here are my results...

WSF 5.8gr

HI 1253.3 fps

LO 1221.0 fps

SD 10.8

ES 32.3

AVG 1235.3 fps

PF 153

WSF 6.0gr

HI 1263.4 fps

LO 1240.0

SD 7.9

ES 23.4

AVG 1252.5

PF 155

WSF 6.2gr

HI 1290.5 fps

LO 1262.1 fps

SD 9.7

ES 28.5

AVG 1273.7 fps

PF 158

WSF 6.4gr

HI 1342.8

LO 1299.2

SD 12.9

ES 43.5

AVG 1318.4

PF 163

WSF 6.6gr

HI 1359.7

LO 1328.8

SD 9.6

ES 30.9

AVG 1340.5

PF 166 (Major at this point)

WSF 6.7gr

HI 1378.7

LO 1315.9

SD 18.3

ES 62.8

AVG 1342.9

PF 167

I stopped at this point. I loaded up some more rounds at the 6.6~6.8 gr. range and will do some more testing tomorrow. Good signs on primers, gun got better and better as the PF went up, comp really starts to work. I think the dot moved around more with my 134PF loads that I used to sight-in gun. I also plan to try a couple of different powders and will post those results as soon as I work those loads up as well.

can you tell me what recoil spring # you are using and if you cut any coils?

Edited November 13, 2007 by ormondopen

[HoMiE]

14# Wolff glock spring, no coils cut for major

10# ISMI 1911 spring 4~5 coils cut for minor

[spankymac]

12# Wolf glock w/ 2 coils removed....major to steel loads, works great

11# ISMI glock, works good but the wolf works better

[HoMiE]

Still haven't found anymore Silhoutte, but I did happen to come across some VV N340 and Fed SP primers. So I got busy on the SDB and here are my chrono results from today.

All strings were 10 shots, weather today when testing was about 34~35 degress F, elev. 4350 ft.

Mixed "once-fired" brass, Speer, FC, Win, R-P (majority of it was Speer)

Montana Gold 124 JHP

OAL ~ 1.145

Worked my way up with VV N340, starting at 5.8 gr. to 7.1 gr. I had some loads higher but stopped once I reached the 175+ PF and didn't shoot them, pulled the bullets when I got back to the bench.

N340 5.8 gr

HI 1240.9 fps

LO 1181.5 fps

SD 16.0

ES 59.4

AVG 1212.9 fps

PF 150

N340 6.0 gr

HI 1260.9 fps

LO 1240.4 fps

SD 7.2

ES 20.6

AVG 1251.3 fps

PF 155

N340 6.2 gr

HI 1307.4 fps

LO 1271.0 fps

SD 13.6

ES 36.5

AVG 1291.5 fps

PF 160

N340 6.4 gr

HI 1337.8 fps

LO 1301.7 fps

SD 10.7

ES 36.1

AVG 1321.8 fps

PF 164

N340 6.7 gr

HI 1371.2 fps

LO 1332.6 fps

SD 11.4

ES 38.6

AVG 1354.1 fps

PF 168

N340 6.9 gr

HI 1399.2 fps

LO 1372.8 fps

SD 8.8

ES 26.4

AVG 1388.9 fps

PF 172

N340 7.1 gr

HI 1433.3 fps

LO 1401.8 fps

SD 9.4

ES 31.5

AVG 1421.5 fps

PF 176

I didn't notice any primer signs and the loads seemed to be less smokey than the ones I have been using with WSF. I decided to split the difference and load up at 6.8 gr. I will shoot some more and see how "dirty" it is in my gun after I give it a cleaning.

[maineshootah]

I didn't notice any primer signs and the loads seemed to be less smokey than the ones I have been using with WSF. I decided to split the difference and load up at 6.8 gr. I will shoot some more and see how "dirty" it is in my gun after I give it a cleaning.

Homie,

Thanks for the comparison of WSF to VV N340.

I was wondering what it would take.

How is the case denisty different between the two?

Does 6.8g or N340 fill the case more than 6.8 of WSF?

[HoMiE]

Homie,

Thanks for the comparison of WSF to VV N340.

I was wondering what it would take.

How is the case denisty different between the two?

Does 6.8g or N340 fill the case more than 6.8 of WSF?

N340 fills the case more than WSF. I would say it leaves about 1/8" of space from the top of case @ 6.8 gr. OAL at 1.145", I don't feel the load compressing either.