buddy_fuentes Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 We all should be ambassadors for our sport. When we see a new shooter at our matches we should welcome them and let them know we are there to help them if they need anything. They should be allowed to shoot from ready gun, if they don't have a proper holster and one cannot be found. Everything other than the safety rules should be bent to encourage them to return. If we meet new shooters at the range, we should invite them to come and participate in a match. They may get hooked. It sounds like some of the shooters that this guy encountered were not too sure of themselves and wanted this "new guy" to think they were the "elite" with the best toys. Darn shame! Buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 I feel this guys pain...I showed up a year ago at my first USPSA match just to watch and they made me shoot! Can you believe that! Here, is a belt, a gun, holster, pouches, ammo...have fun Yeah, talking about intimidating! Shooting with masters that are blazind down the stage and here I am just walking through but damn I had fun. I really hope our OHIO brothers gets this guy out again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bierman Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 As I was reading the thread on the other forum I got this sick feeling in my stomach, thinking "Great, this is no way to grow an organization". Then I got to post after post from folks here and my heart soared. Once again, this forum has proven to be "the" place for ambassadors of our sport. Everyone who posted there proved, yet again, the quality of the folks in our sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamann Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 As I was reading the thread on the other forum I got this sick feeling in my stomach, thinking "Great, this is no way to grow an organization". Then I got to post after post from folks here and my heart soared. Once again, this forum has proven to be "the" place for ambassadors of our sport. Everyone who posted there proved, yet again, the quality of the folks in our sport. +1. Reading the other thread made my day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeryBadshot Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Boy it was painful to read the thread started by Warpusher, and for me it seemed like some folks smelled blood in the water. My first time out was great, heck I'm lazy as you can be and still put up a post thanking the folks at SAPSA. And I now I have to say thanks to the people that posted on ABY, stand up job. I only shoot USPSA , but have nothing but respect for others who shoot what ever as long as they are safe. Not giving guns/shooting a blackeye. I have to agree, we all better stick together. I can't help myself on this one. I work in a busy ER with a lot of LE contact. I see them on duty, off duty, between duty (poor LEO"s never seem to get a break) and I don't remember the last time I saw "that" kind of holster. Maybe someone could enlighten me.......do you still use them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 I rarely see any LEO's using a shoulder holster (maybe a detective) but when and if you do you will notice they are "muzzle-down" shoulder holsters ... not "muzzle-back". Allot easier to conceal, more comfortable, but most importantly they are safer that way. So as not to sweep every innocent bystander on the street, or perhaps in-line at a coffee shop. They still present a problem when drawing the gun (similar to a cross-draw holster) because it is still very easy to sweep others in the room with a loaded gun both when drawing and while re-holstering. Strong sided holsters were decided upon by USPSA years ago, and determined to be the safest and therefore the only type of holster allowed in USPSA competitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Maybe he watched Miami Vice as a kid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 OK kids, enough of the shoulder holster bashing. The guy isn't a cop. He's a captain in the Air Force. When you're flying for a living, the shoulder holster is VASTLY easier to deal with. Try running a hip holster under your flightsuit for a month and come back and tell me how much fun you had. Try even getting *to* the gun. Try getting comfortable in a seat that was marginally designed to fit humans with your heater hanging off your right hip. Try being comfortable in that seat for hours upon end with no way to get up and stretch. They have a place and a purpose, just not in USPSA unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 OK kids, enough of the shoulder holster bashing. The guy isn't a cop. He's a captain in the Air Force. When you're flying for a living, the shoulder holster is VASTLY easier to deal with. Try running a hip holster under your flightsuit for a month and come back and tell me how much fun you had. Try even getting *to* the gun. Try getting comfortable in a seat that was marginally designed to fit humans with your heater hanging off your right hip. Try being comfortable in that seat for hours upon end with no way to get up and stretch. They have a place and a purpose, just not in USPSA unfortunately. I would say fortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Hey, I don't want SH's in USPSA, but the reality is, they serve a functional purpose. I've been at the range when some guy was drawing hot out of a shoulder holster and sweeping the entire building. It was all I could do to not come totally unglued on the guy. All that said. I've used a SH. My father packed his service revo as a USAF fighter pilot for decades in a SH, which I still have. If I start riding bikes in the backcountry or flying again, it's highly likely that I'll pick up another shoulder rig. They're tools, not religions. Unfortunately this guy showed up to a plumbing job with a claw hammer instead of the strap wrench. Gentle, constructive correction were in order, not ridicule and criticism. Think about it when you meet that new shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Hey, I don't want SH's in USPSA, but the reality is, they serve a functional purpose. I've been at the range when some guy was drawing hot out of a shoulder holster and sweeping the entire building. It was all I could do to not come totally unglued on the guy. All that said. I've used a SH. My father packed his service revo as a USAF fighter pilot for decades in a SH, which I still have. If I start riding bikes in the backcountry or flying again, it's highly likely that I'll pick up another shoulder rig. They're tools, not religions. Unfortunately this guy showed up to a plumbing job with a claw hammer instead of the strap wrench. Gentle, constructive correction were in order, not ridicule and criticism. Think about it when you meet that new shooter. You must have missed the post by the RM. I was there, saw and heard the RM talk to the gentlemen. The RM went out of his way to accomodate the Captain. Your post reads as if this gentlemen suffered "ridicule and criticism" while at our club and I'm sure you really did not mean that as you were not there were you? Not trying to critcise you either-just trying to clear the air so-to-speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 We had a shooter up here used a shoulder holster (when they were allowed) quite well. He worked on his draw so that he didn't break the 180 and never beyond the 3 meter rule (which I don't seem to see anymore, I think it said the muzzle must be within 1 meter when standing relaxed or 3 meters while reholstering...I might be mistaken) and never swept himself. It was quite the contortion effort to get it out, but it was safe. His claim for using it was shoulder trouble that prevented him from drawing strong side (apparantly that motion caused pain). However when the rule changed, we offered to see if he could get special allowance to put a holster anywhere on his belt or even a drop rig and stay in standard but I think he stopped shooting around then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Hey, I don't want SH's in USPSA, but the reality is, they serve a functional purpose. I've been at the range when some guy was drawing hot out of a shoulder holster and sweeping the entire building. It was all I could do to not come totally unglued on the guy. All that said. I've used a SH. My father packed his service revo as a USAF fighter pilot for decades in a SH, which I still have. If I start riding bikes in the backcountry or flying again, it's highly likely that I'll pick up another shoulder rig. They're tools, not religions. Unfortunately this guy showed up to a plumbing job with a claw hammer instead of the strap wrench. Gentle, constructive correction were in order, not ridicule and criticism. Think about it when you meet that new shooter. Eric, I wasn't making a comment about the gent in question; only that I feel much better standing behind someone if the gun is on the belt. JT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 I can't help myself on this one. I work in a busy ER with a lot of LE contact. I see them on duty, off duty, between duty (poor LEO"s never seem to get a break) and I don't remember the last time I saw "that" kind of holster. Maybe someone could enlighten me.......do you still use them? AF flight crew uses a shoulder holster. The rest of the AF doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xdrocker Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Now for the other side of the story.This must be the guy showed at our Club match , MBSC in Dayton Oh, about 2 months ago. I do not recall anyone making fun of him due to the pistol he was using or whatever accusations he has leveled. I was acting match director, as Paul was out of town working some area match, and several regular shooters notified me that there was a guy with a shoulder holster. I went and found the person and told him (nicely) that per USPSA rules he could not use a shoulder holster. He then got all defensive stating; "I read the rules on the internet last night and it states that I can use my duty holster since I am military." I said "Yes, you can use a duty rig, but, USPSA rules specifically prohibit use of shoulder holsters for safety reasons." His response, "You mean that even through I used this while “in country” you do not consider this a duty rig." Again, I responded with "That is not the issue with not allowing you to use a shoulder holster and restated the rules." Several times during this conversation, I offered to round up a Holster for him, which I did when all was said and done. As for the Production Gun issue, I told him that USPSA rules limit round count in production division to 10 rounds, and that if you wanted to load 15 in his mags he would have to shoot in the limited division. Again, I was nice and explained the rules. I never said that an M9 was junk or said that it was not a production Gun. Heck, we have several regulars that use M9's. I think that he was on a squad with Bobert, Fullrace, Robert and Mike. As their posts indicate, the description of his experience is now how we treat new shooters. To close, it is sad that this person had a bad experience at our match. That said, on my first contact with this person, he seemed the have a “Chip on his shoulder” with a very negative attitude and in general was confrontational about the whole thing. I found him a holster he could use for the match, even tied to get him to use mag pouches but he declined. All while I explained the rules as they pertained to the situation. Mark Thanks for the other side. I just couldn't see his side of the story being totally accurate. I've only been shooting for a little less than 2 years, shoot about a dozen clubs in 5 states, and I have never seen or heard of something like this except for one time, directed at me and it was only one guy on the squad. I'll settle up with him next time I'm in Georgia, now that I have my "jam-o-matic" fixed . Everybody else has been helpful, sometimes to much information. My first match, I just showed up with ammo and a now friend of mine, who was the match director, let me borrow everything else. The best thing I have seen was at FL. State match in 2003, lady went to get her gun out at safe area only to found out it was still at the house , another shooter on our squad offered to let her shoot his backup open gun. To cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Hey, I don't want SH's in USPSA, but the reality is, they serve a functional purpose. I've been at the range when some guy was drawing hot out of a shoulder holster and sweeping the entire building. It was all I could do to not come totally unglued on the guy. All that said. I've used a SH. My father packed his service revo as a USAF fighter pilot for decades in a SH, which I still have. If I start riding bikes in the backcountry or flying again, it's highly likely that I'll pick up another shoulder rig. They're tools, not religions. Unfortunately this guy showed up to a plumbing job with a claw hammer instead of the strap wrench. Gentle, constructive correction were in order, not ridicule and criticism. Think about it when you meet that new shooter. You must have missed the post by the RM. I was there, saw and heard the RM talk to the gentlemen. The RM went out of his way to accomodate the Captain. Your post reads as if this gentlemen suffered "ridicule and criticism" while at our club and I'm sure you really did not mean that as you were not there were you? Not trying to critcise you either-just trying to clear the air so-to-speak. I actually am not referencing the incident at the range. I'm actually concerned about the attitudes *here* transferring themselves to another incident in the future. People legitimately use shoulder holsters in "the real world" without any attending Miami Vice fantasies. We need to be able to talk to people at the range about their use (or dis-use) in a way that makes them want to shoot with us. That's my only point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mda Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Ok Folks, I personally think that there has been enough bashing and mud slinging going on from the beginning. FROM BOTH SIDES! Many of you Starting bashing me and my club for how they perceived we treated new shooters without any knowledge of the situation. I told my side of the story, for what it was worth, with back up from some of those that were there. Then a few started bashing the Warpusher. What impression have we provided to any that may have followed the original post back to our forum? Many Enos members showed great concern and posted on the other forum encouraging Warpusher to return or find another club, which I applaud. I did not reply to Warpushers post simply because no mater what I said or did would change his mind; It was made before he ever showed up for our match. Could we do a better job introducing new shooters to the sport at our club? Why Yes! But there are many that show up on a regular basis that started out as new shooters at our club. Fullrace, Micah, Bobert, and many others are an example. We simply cannot satisfy everybody all the time, and no club can claim to do so, we can only make the effort. And to semi-quote Bseevers 1. There are some A-holes running matches anywhere in the US 2. There has always been someone complaining about IPSC ever since I’ve been in it. 3. Every once in a while these people meet each other or us. 4. The internet can sometime make a weak man brave. 5. Volunteers need better pay and make mistakes. Mark Anderson Person in charge during incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Sounds like we can put this one to bed. Closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts